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Feb
9
Dear people in long-term relationships,
February 9, 2010 | 179 Comments
Dear people in long-term relationships,
I have a question for you. I’m completely unsure of the answer. Having never been in a long-term relationship during my adult life, I lean on you for guidance and advice.
What is love like after five years? Is it like a Disney movie, with singing blue-jays and sunshine and rainbows? Or is it just two people that get along reasonably well and have decided to make a life together?
I suppose love is probably different for different people in different relationships. But what is love like, for you?
I have been with my boyfriend for a year and a half. While it was sunshine and rainbows for the first few months, that initial excitement has waned. I don’t get butterflies in my belly when he calls. I’m not inspired by our connection. I love him, but it’s no Disney movie. Every now and then, I get a glimpse of the magic – but it’s not everyday.
Is that what love really is? I think it might be. When I look at the long-term relationships around me, I see people that have a mutual connection and some chemistry – but I don’t see magic.
Did Mr. Disney pull a fast one on us? Or is his vision of love the version to which all of us should aspire?
I don’t know. Hopefully you do.
Love,
Davey
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Ditto.
Davey Wavey.
Although I dont know either of you I’m going to make a possible suggestion that hopefully will come in handy in some way or another.
You (davey wavey) have had many experiance as it seems with traveling and open to experiancing things that the world has to offer and maybe you should make new experiance with your boyfriend.
I’m not saying that you dont cause like i’ve stated I dont know either of you. But I’m sure if you had things such as adventures to share with each other it would put a spark that you might be looking for. Often time I personally find that taking long drives to nowhere at night with my boyfriend seems to stir up some conversation in which it opens each others eyes and make us realize just why we love, and independently need each other for our own satisfaction.
Often times the people in a relationship do not change, after all you did fall in love with who they were and not who they were to change into, and so there fore the change thats often longed for is just another longing change in memories and the recurring routine of daily life.
So to put it best spice every day up with a new kind of beginning and a different ending that will create memories for you both to cherish in your own way about one another.
I don’t have an answer for you. But what I do want you to know that just as much as you have been there for me, despite your lack of awareness, I am here for you, and I want you to know that regardless of what happens to you, I see you as a friend, and I am always available for my friends. Your advice has helped keep me going despite what I assumed to be great odds, and I want you to know that even though I am one of many people affected by your website, I am here for you to talk to. Every person has their moments of need.
You are an absolutely beautiful person, and I wish you nothing more than the absolute best.
Thank you so much for all you have done for me.
I love you.
-Christopher H. Morris.
The “happily ever after” in a Disney movie is always only covered at the movie’s end which is the beginning of the new love relationship. I’m sure that if we revisited Cinderella and the Prince a year or five years later, we would find two people who still love each other. However, instead of only looking deeply into each other’s eyes, they would be standing side by side, arm in arm, looking ahead, in the same direction, together. That’s love in a long term relationship.
I read with much interest your posting. Life viewed from my end after a relationship lasting now 47years shows up’s and downs success and failure, but at the end contentment. Life for you alas has to go through all these. You will fall in and out of love and lust. All relationships start with lust but end with love, The easiest thing in the world is to say don’t worry life is like that. It’s not until you reach my age that you realise it’s true. At 67 I no longer work , can do what I please and have money to do it with. Alas the lust is still there but who wants’ to go to bed with an old man when there are lots of shaggy blonds out there. You are OK, you are growing up that’s all. Lots of love and kind thoughts Alan
I been with my partner/husband for 3 year in October and I still get butterflies in my belly. We are married and live together in the uk. We plan to move to Australia in about a year time. I still get excited when he rings or comes home from work. My heart misses a beat when is soft lip touch mine. Love come in may ways but true love is to strong and powerful to explain in words, it is magic but not like a Disney film well not one I have ever seen. It just love.
I may my partner and I will celebrate 19 years.
Even after all that time he does things that make me and I hope him feel so happy. Yes there have been rough times, times when I could have easily walked away. Yet through all of the good a bad times, well we have grown. We are two very different individuals and that is important.
Do I still Love him after 19 years. Yes, but not the same way I did 19 years ago. Yet that Love is still there and just as strong and alive.
The butterflies only fly away if you let them go.
I met my boyfriend, now hubby, 24 years ago, at 26, at the now gone Alta Plaza Bar in SF. We both avoided getting caught cruising the other. After me left, I finished my drink and left to drive home. As I was approaching my car, I spotted him placing a note under the wiper. We said hello and each went on our way. The note, quite awkward, was an invite to meet the next in Golden Gate Park for a local rugby match.
The next morning, in Oakland where I lived, I dwelled over whether I should attempt to meet up with him. I had never been to Golden Gate Park, had no idea there where polo grounds, and had work to do. So, of course, I headed into the City to see what was what. That was a Saturday.
Monday morning when I arrived at the office for a typical start of the week, made the coffee, and went into my dad’s office to plan the next. After the quick “good morning” my dad looked me in the face and said, “You’ve met someone. Who is he?” I blushed. At the end of the day, my dad asked me, when I though the time was right, to bring this one to meet him and my mom. “I want to meet the guy who has obviously smitten you.”
Today, the note from under the wiper is behind glass in a Tiffany frame engraved, “The First Year” as paper is the traditional first year anniversary present. The frame gets dusted everyday.
Trials are what make a relationship work and succeed. We got HIV tested about a month after meeting (the first time the test was made available to the public). We both expected to be poz; I was, he not (and still not). We both watched over a dozen friends each, most former fun buddies, die tough deaths. My first symptom showed up the same week my dad found out he had late stage prostate cancer.
My parents, because of my dad, were supportive and loving. My BF was writing the “letter” when we met; they, practically, disowned him. So he became apart of my family.
We dealt with my dad’s death, losing my job, and my working out and closing out family business situations. We dealt with his family’s nastiness and supported his feelings.
All the time, we still dealt with my HIV+ status and the notion of impending doom. And we still reached out to help our friends who were in worse shape.
We started a business together, and it grew and grew and we got pretty high on ourselves. We enjoyed some amazing vacations, Christmases at the Four Seasons on the Big Island, Claridges in London, the Montelambert in Paris. A few cruises and other travels.
But we had a business partner who stole so much it put our company, and me, into bankruptcy. And, losing everything pretty much sucked. But the Christmas I remember most lovingly is the one after losing our home and renting a loft, we had $200 for the month. We made a Christmas tree out of our decorations, and our Christmas presents were the Chocolate truffles we made together.
************************
As I opened this post, butterflies fly away if you let them go. This past week, the hubby was in California for 10 days working on a project. As I peered through the window at baggage pickup (couldn’t stray too far from the car), and saw him, there was the smile! I love butterflies, there are so beautiful.
I agree. After 15 years that is how it is for us.
Spot on. Well written. This sums it up.
In my case I would say we still laugh together regularly. In spite of some really tough times. Its been a bumpy ride in many ways, but throughout it all we have been able to laugh. In fact, just this second he walked into the bedroom and did something that made me giggle and enjoy his sweet nature and wonderful face. As sex has faded other things emerge to take the place of the physical connection between us. This is a challenge, but not an uncommon one I think.
The long term gay relationship is a challenge — physically, mentally, morally and spiritually. We are as males, I believe, meant to look around. Testosterone in some ways compels us to go forth and spread the seed. It doesn’t stop, although it tapers off somewhat, I guess. There is huge guilt in our society about living within a long term relationship and the notion of “cheating”. I have wrestled with this for a long time. If sex was no longer all that it once was at home, it could be great fun to visit a sauna/bath house from time to time. Although I have felt conflicted about engaging in this sort of thing I have also found it liberating, educational, life affirming, great fun and a really civilized way of addressing my desire and need for sex. (safer sex!) In a way I found it a way to express that side of my personality and my needs without threatening the emotional bond that my partner and I share. “An affair of the dick rather than an affair of the heart”, which I have found is a distinguishing feature. Falling in love with someone else is at this point is more of a betrayal than having a sexual encounter outside the relationship. This is not something everyone can agree on. It will not work for many, but it might be the answer for some.
This is us after 15 years too. Very accurate description of the relationship that my partner and I share.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! There is so much in “Company” that deserves looking at again and again. Could you write out the lyrics to “Marry Me A Little”. Such a great song and so well sung by Raul Esparza. You can find him singing it in the PBS version of the 2006 B way production.
Marry me a little
Love me just enough …
My partner and I have been together for 13 years and we’ve grown together more than I ever thought possible. Every day is a blessing, it isn’t all Disney bluebirds and wildlife helping around the house, but it is a wonderful life. There are moments of irritation for both of us, but we’ve learned how each other would react and we’ve overcome many of the issues that would have lead others into breakups. Our relationship is semi-open, we have rules about how and when we allow each other to ‘engage’ with other people and it works with us. One big piece of advice I have for any couple or even a poly is regular reviews – set up little mini constitutional conventions where everything is on the table and you can be brutally honest about your feelings. Communication & Humor help.
Hey Davey,
I have read you blogs and responded on many occasions, but this subject is one that I can most definitely respond to with great passion.
My life partner and I have begin together for 14 years (this coming June). I can say that I am more in love with him today than I was when we first met. Many people have asked us the key to a successful long term relationship. I am going to take the reins and “speak” on both our behalfs since he is at work right now.
There are several components to having a succesful relationship with another person. First of all…get rid of that “Disney-singing-sunshine” imagery. That can only set you up for disappointment. JD and I have (from the very start of our relationship), taken it one day at time.
You should both be on the same page as to what yo want out of the relationship. That’s not to say that you have to be the excact same personaliy, but you should both want to work towards the same common goals in the relationship.
JD and I have always wanted a partner that we trust, respect and who shares same love for family, friends and long term stability. When we met we had both (previously) been in long term relationships that ended. We both came to our relationship with a better understanding of what we wanted in another person (and for me…exactly what I “didn’t” want). Our approaches may be different but our common goal is that we want, what is best for each of us and both of us as a couple.
I admit that the newness of a relatiionship, and the hot young passion is exhilerating and intoxicationg! You should know that kind of hormonal and pheromonal rush comes in spurts and you can get that feeling in many parts of your life (I do from performing, doing a great job and spending time with my close friends and family). But if you are under the belief that is how you are going to feel everyday of you life with your life partner, than you are in for a major disappointment).
Life on your own isn’t a “feel good” moment everyday and neither is life with someone else. You need to keep it real and be prepared to stick it out through the not-so-good times (and there are going to be some).
You need to also love your partner for his strengths, but accept that he has weaknesses and flaws. Mutually you need to agree on how you handle those. You need to also mutually agree on how you handle your relationship. My point here is don’t let other people define your relationship…you need to do what works for the two of you.
(I can remmeber that after only a couple weeks of dating, several people started referring to us as ‘boyfriends’. Neither one of us was comfortable with that title and always corrected them and stated,”We are dating. When the situation changes, we’ll let you know”
Again, keep it real and honest. The rest falls into place. Do we still sneak off and have a random sexual romp with each other like when we were dating?…not so much. But now after a long day or really stressful week. I come home to hot bath, scented candles, a fabulously prepared meal amd a man that I trust and look up to, because being with him makes me strive to be a better person.
Since I work from home more often, I make sure that when he comes home from work, it’s totally “our time”. We both have a designated amount of time to decompress from the work day, and then, we turn the home phone off, sit down to dinner together and then usually it’s an evening together with a bottle of wine and “no interruptions” by people or technology.
A solid and successful relationship is like anything else. It requires your time, dedication and effort and I assure you the rewards are endless.
KG
Having read all the responses to your great query (pun intended) thus far, I can say that they have helped me to shape a response to the doubts my boyfriend has expressed to me about being in love with me.
We have a long-distance relationship, a much greater distance between us than between you and your boyfriend. I live very, very close to Washington, DC, and he lives 700 miles north of Lima, Peru. Because of our work schedules, and because of the travel expenses involved, we only get to see each other about 4 times a year, and sometimes our visits are not very long in duration. We have an upcoming visit in March that will last one week, which is optimal.
If I did not speak Spanish, we would not have a relationship. In Spanish, there are two ways to say “I love you.” “Te amo” means “I am in love with you”, and “te quiero”, means “I love you.” We both started out with saying “te amo” to each other, but now he is saying “te quiero” to me, and having his doubts about moving to the US so that we can make our lives together. Thanks to your readers, I can now explain to him about “las mariposas en el estomago”, “the butterflies in the stomach”, and how love evolves in the course of a relationship.
My boyfriend is a late bloomer. When he was 30 in August 2008, we met online and had an internet romance before we actually met. I am both the first man with whom he ever had sex, and his first love, as well. Since it is his first time in love, he has no experience to which he can compare the present relationship, and thus is now confused about his feelings. Thanks to you and your blog, I think we will be able to get things back on track during our upcoming visit.
I have been in long term relationships, the longest having been 19 years with my ex-husband. Although we are still friends and love each other, the relationship is no more because we avoided talking through our problems. I have learned a lot about relationships over the years, and about the mistakes I had made in them. With my current boyfriend, César, I am determined to avoid my previous pitfalls, and today’s posting has been a blessing to us. How cool that the replies to your question had the unintended effect of helping two people in their romance.
Thank you, Davey, for your extraordinary blog, and for remaining true to yourself.
Walt Disney specialized in fairy tales — not real life. Much of Hollywood, for a long time, perpetuated the fantasy. People LIKE fantasy. It sells well.
But real life is not fantasy. I’ve lived with the same man now for almost 30 years (October, 2010 will make 30 years). To make a relationship last, what you need is commitment. Sex is fun and amusing. But real support in life comes from someone you have learned to trust and who has learned to trust you.
Good and honest communication are essential to building a relationship that lasts a lifetime. So is tolerance and understanding. Monogamy? Well, I’m not a fan of it actually. I think open relationships are far more likely to succeed. But don’t LIE to each other about your relationships. Men, at least, are not by nature monogamous — despite some claims to the contrary. But as long as sexual pleasure does not blind you to what is REALLY important, I say “so what?”
I think of human relationships as roots of a tree. Some of them are strong. Some of them last long. They all help to support you. Some of them include sex. Some do not. That’s NOT the important thing — though when you are in your 20’s you might tend to think so.
My 30-year relationship certainly started out hot and heavy from a sexual viewpoint — and stayed that way for more than 15 years. But tell me, who wants to look at a porn magazine full of 50 & 60-year-olds? (Well, ok, they are exceptions — but I don’t see such magazines being produced very often — do you?) Young bodies are like flowers. They bloom. They fade. They are a part of the natural processes of life.
So, in summary, don’t expect Disneyland every day. Look for loyalty and honesty and sharing and commitment. Don’t sweat the rest.
I am no expert in relationships but I do have some experience to share my thoughts. So here goes…
I been together with my current boyfriend for 3 and half years. The relationship has not been as smooth as I had imagined it would be like; we have had many fights, break ups and hoopla. Similar to your situation, he and I do not live in the same city, which has been our greatest obstacle. We do call one other a lot (at least 2-3 times a day), and make an effort to see each other at least once a month, but this really has never quelled our longing for one another.
Anyway, to get to the point, I believe there are many explanations to this phenomenon that you feel is lacking in existence within you.
May be you just need to give it some time. Personally, every time my bf and I speak to one another on the phone, it lasts at least an hour because we can still feel that “magic” coursing within our veins (and yes I can speak for him because we have talked about this). Though it may not be the same as it was back when I first met him, it has simply evolved into a deeper feeling that I cannot describe in words. So you may just need to give it time because that feeling may return in a different guise and you may get those butterflies in your stomach back in no time.
Now if they still do not return, then comes my next point: “You just might not be that in to him.” It is a difficult lesson to learn but if you do not feel it, then you probably never will again. Not to be pessimistic, but you must come to grips with the possibility that he may not be the person that you want to spend the rest of your life with. There are billions of men in this world and at least one of them is bound to be the right man for you. However, I suggest you bring these concerns of yours to your bf first before gallivanting off on a manhunt. Because truly, these feelings of yours may just be a phase.
Gosh, I went through so many of these phases until I finally realized that if the stars are aligned for my bf and I to be together for the rest of our lives, then so be it, of course this involves a lot of work on our part (but this begs the question as to how much work are you willing to put it in to make it work?). However, if they are not aligned, then I know that I am more than capable to keep searching for Mr. Right, and as are you!
In conclusion, bring these concerns of yours to him first and foremost. Relationships are always complicated, and by voicing those issues out to the other person, you will gain a better understanding of where your relationship is heading, and ultimately where you would like it to go.
If you haven’t had the “talk” yet, may be you should!?!
hey, davey! if love would be like a disney tale wouldnt i8t be horrible?
me and my husband are together for aprox 7 yrs and know each other for more than 10 yrs.
in this time love changed. from the butterflies to everyday life. but it is a difference living alone or together and share your thoughts, fears, joy, flue etc.
it’s fine to have a trustful relationship. but some days are hard. some days may bring tears.
but at the end you say it’s worth it all!
okay, some relationships had have their times. that could also happen. especially when you’re not caring enough. love and long-time relationship are even as job. a very qualified job! but: just do.
ps: do you asked your question cause of that aussie mitch you fell in love with? *grin
I thing that the butterflies stage last couple months. At least it’s happened with me.when I met my boyfriend I moved to live with him a month later I have met him, it’s been 8 months and the butterflies has gone away, it doesn’t mean I don’t love him
though, I do love him, but love is faar diferent from sexual attraction, I remember we would have sex every single day in the first 4 months, but now it has changed, but I still think he is fucking hot and desireble.
And after all those things has been said DEALING with people is hard even when it is your boyfriend/ husband.
We fight, he has things I don’t like about him, but I still love him and he’s the one I wanna have a family, even if we decide someday to go in a open relacionship.
I’ve told him, if you want to have sex with a hot guy go forward but don’t get emotional, if you do, I’ll kill you.
I’ve never participated in a blog but was intrigued by the question. The responses I’ve read are all great and mostly accurate but don’t directly answer your question. It’s perfect that you use Disney to frame your question. We live in a society that programs us with Disney expectations, and ill-placed priorities, causing us to marry/partner for wrong reasons (hot ass, big bank account, etc.) from which (no big surprise) we (collectively, gay, straight, etc.) experience a 60% divorce rate outcome. If your original choice of partner is based on genuinely complimentary chemistry and mutual desire for and clear vision of meaningful longterm relations, understanding human frailties and unrealistic expectations (not ’soulmate, clone, just like me, monogamy’ Disney ideals) you can count on a future that only gets better and better with time, not gauged by butterflies but by growth of respect and appreciation. I’ve been with my partner for over 10 years and we fully expect to spend the rest of our lives together, having both been partnered previously with those hot asses, big bank accounts and monogamous soulmates.
Wow,
This is the first time reading one of your posts where I thought, Davey doesn’t like the idea of commitment, growing up, and getting older.
When I was in my early 20’s, I had the same questions and concerns you have about being in a relationship. Those same concerns stayed with me for a year or two into my 22 year old partnership as of February 17th.
There have been ups and downs but when looking back, having someone there to support and be supported by, makes those butterflies come back every time. My partner can drive me nuts but I love him more today than 22 years ago. The relationship evolves as long as you are not selfish and realize it really is a give and take process.
I have mostly coupled friends now. The single guys whine that they can’t find anyone. Their partner was available along the way, but they where too scared to commit to the responsibility of a relationship.
Davey, please do not play with the hearts of people that love you. If you are not willing to go for the long haul, stay single and only bed down with others that feel the same. This world is full of chasers that only want the prize…for awhile…like a new puppy.
Davy Wavey is a fake; plastic! He lives in woonsocket ri and is stuck on himself! nough said
Most of us are reared with the “Hallmark” version of love and life. There’s a big problem with this since we don’t figure out we’ve been raised on a myth about life until we experience it.
This subject seems to contravene your otherwise “daily” living motto. Why project other people’s relationship experiences into yours? That’s the real question.
And that very well may be the real answer.
Fuck the puppy. I’m in it for the chase. Fortunately or unfortunately we’re quite rare. Rarer still are the people who have the balls to admit it.
Down boy, Joe. Let’s play fair. Mitch might not be his bitch.
Although blunt, DonM and Mr. Bing make good points for consideration.
So your saying to jam your big hot poker in it every now and then, I can handle that.
I agree with you Mikey… I will have been in a relationship 15 years this July and while the daily experience of that relationship is not the same as it was 15 years ago, it is no less significant because I don’t feel butterflies in my stomach when he walks in the room… I am able to love my partner now for reasons I couldn’t have even imagined back at the start. The gravity of the relationship is so much greater now and you realize that the butterflies are just a chemical reaction that really does not have much meaning in and of themselves. I think it is almost useless to try and convince someone who has never committed to a long term relationship what the merits are. Most relationships that don’t work out I think tend to be because the people involved fail to understand or commit to common goals. In all of Davey’s post he has never once mentioned anything that led me to think he has thought about establishing a relationship based on common goals with another person, other than sex. It is in the day to day work of building a life and working to achieve these common goals that the love evolves into something substantial that cannot be achieved with out effort and time. It isn’t for everyone…Gary Bing wants to be a player and that is cool…there are plenty of people like him out there…have at it and good luck.
I’m glad to see that you met so young! I’m very glad to see a dragon and ox couple last so long! I’m a dragon and ox men often appeal to me my concern in pursuing them is that I feel it would just end in a battle of stubborn will. Maybe I should rethink that.
I would like your e-mail. in the near future I will be studying aids, I’m very intrigued about how your husband is still negative.
I concur with GB. I’ve only been with my fella for 2 years, so I don’t speak from 20 years of experience. However, trust and understanding is also what binds us together. I feel most comfortable and safe when I’m home with him. We are very different people, and I struggle to reconcile some of our differences, but I feel like you have to have a solid foundation of trust and security before you start fine tuning the relationship. A point I think is important to make, for both my benefit and the benefit of others, is that life is too short to be permanently limited. I feel that if one or more persons in a relationship feel irreconcilably unfulfilled, it would be best to transition to a different phase of life, even one that no longer includes your current relationship. It gets harder to accept this philosophy every year longer you’re together, but I don’t feel like you can be a good partner if you’re not being your whole self. I hope that makes some sense =o)
I have known him and loved him since 1964. My family and his family wanted us to spend our lives together. I respectfully declined saying “We are very very close friends, and I intend to keep it that way.” He was jealous and two faced. I spent many a year trying to break him in. Maybe I’m better with horses. I tried gentle and rough. Nothing worked but I like a challenge but you can beat a dead horse if you’re a sick fuck.I am not a member of that club. He took me to his set, a wooden hot tub in a back yard in Silver Lake in 1976. ( I was wearing one of those OP terrycloth numbers with rainbows even ) Derrick Stanton and Kip Knowl were about to perform for the cameras ( it was film then, a very awkward and expensive process necessitating the removal of all the furniture from the living room.) It was very mechanical between them if they did kiss (don’t remember) it was for a shot. There was a real spark in the room between Kip (Tom) and I. Some one on the set made a comment to that effect. Things were moving very quickly between us ( I was thinking too quickly ) It was there I just couldn’t deal with it He leaned in nude and kissed me, right in front of everybody. Then the fucker proposed! You don’t want to see that jealous face it ain’t pretty. You’d think my friend of a bizzillion years would be happy for me He put on his clothes at the end and wanted to party with me (they got paid immediately in cash then, look out). Bob was my ride, Tom wanted to take me for one. You date porn stars you don’t marry them. But Tom and I had that special feeling. Bob and I didn’t. But I can make him cum three times and he told me no one has been able to do that. ,I told him I’m not no one. How about a quad? He said ‘Go to sleep.” You don’t marry porn stars. I had a stroke on March 16 last year and I called him from the hospital telling him where I was. He never visited, called or even e-mailed me since. There is a song that says “Love is a two faced..” It’s hard being me. It’s harder being him. Can’t say I didn’t give it my best shot. We did the “open relationship” thing. Open for him but not for me. When some cute thing snagged my ass there was that ugly sour puss jealous face. I’m in a “relationship” with a 70 year old woman now.Same thing cute guys talk to me and she gets miffed ( I’m kind of an expert at it by now, you think?) One time she said you got him first I guess and artfully bowed out. I didn’t tell her that he actually seeked me out and proceeded to go into a list on why he liked me, and we exchanged phone numbers. Cute, close, but no cigar. I could get him off but I just don’t think he’d be all that great reciprocating. Same thing the people and the time are different. Don’t give up on love. Sometimes it hits you so fast and so intense you’d might as well been hit by a roof tile.
Davey, you’re too stuck on yourself… look for real people and stop looking for beauty skin deep
Davey, Kudos to you for looking before you leap. This augers good signs for the survival of a relationship
First Thoughts
Distinguish between companionship and love. Man by genetics is a social pack animal. Companionship is more likely to last. Love is physiologically related to serotonin levels (think orgasms) that seldom can be maintained on high level over long periods. That’s why if you wanted ice cream yesterday you’ll be better to have it occasionally, not every single day with the expectation that each day it will have exactly the same kick.
Second Thoughts: Keeping it Going
Being the two people you are, realize that both of you are accustomed to levels of public attention that may very well wane as you age. How will that change you and your needs?
Agree that each of you have at the minimum one best friend outside the relationship, (preferably more,) and preferably much older or younger than you, much richer or poorer, sophisticated or naive. Doing so not only keeps you from pinning all your social needs on your partner, but also keeps you from falling into a narrow view of how things should be when it’s not about you.
Agree to
Never go to bed mad.
The rules for arguing.
How to handle expenses when one of you makes more money than the other.
Keep finances, ownership, and checkbooks separately for the first few years.
Once a month schedule a time to talk about how things are goin.g
Occasionally play kinky. Laugh if it doesn’t work.
Once a month at a regular time hand the other a slip of paper with the one thing you like best about the other.
Not have sex outside the relationship unless there is full disclosure, condoms and preferably, with advance notice.
Having sex with friends only when both of you are present.
The idea that if the relationship wanes or disintegrates, you will look on it as a good time in your life, a great learning experience, and will stay in contact.
If someone says they are having a Disney relationship, they are just kidding or brain dead.
I was with my lover for 12 years until he died.
Love, love, love … Tell me how you are, I love you forever.
To love is a mystery, it is what does we to be together with the loved person it is to try to decipher that mystery.
To love is more than to be beside somebody, of calling of boyfriend, of having somebody to think daily.
Each one has your love meaning, mine is… To wake up thinking about the loved person, to feel longings during the day in hearing his voice, it is to win a hug, a kiss, flowers without nor to wait, it is to pass the night taking care one of the dream of the other, it is to have him to the side when you need.
For me to love is more than a simple friendship and sex.
Greetings Davey,
I have been following your blog for quite some while, but have remained silent in my acknowledgment and respect of your thoughts. I have never needed to respond per se. However, your posting today moved me very deeply. I admire your humility in asking the question you have of your invisible and largely unknown friends. How very brave.
As a result, I feel compelled to respond and add another voice to the many who wish to share. There has been a great deal of wisdom imparted. I am not sure you will even get to my humble addition. No matter. Someone might catch it.
Love after five years? Davey, to look at someone silently, and feel the “butterflies” is a most magical thing. It is the catalyst, the spark, that gets the relationship rolling. When love of the truest kind is there, we barely notice over time as it is replaced with something different, yet, more sustainable, and frankly, more comfortable……that churning gut, can become an irritant! Important traits are gradually revealed, as one becomes surer like trust, integrity, and belief in the motives of the other. If the relationship is real, then a symbiosis emerges as the two begin to both read and understand the needs, wants and desires of the other. It becomes one of ease, one of understanding, and communication is easy.
My relationship of thirteen years ended abruptly a few years ago. The reason for its closure is irrelevant. However, I knew what I felt in my heart, what motivated me, and what it gave me. I also know what it felt like to be loved, and cherished long after the initial spark had given way to seeming habit.
You are a good Man Davey, and if you can have what I have known, then I wish it for you.
Love and blessings from a stranger.
I like the flower analogy. I was walking in front of my apt. and a neighbor said, “Gary I so like the fact that you take the time which practically none of us have to plant the petunias and other flowers.” “These petunias came up on their own,”I said. “”From last year.” That’s impossible! They don’t do that and especially with this soil and being so close to the ocean,” she said. Another woman appeared looked at the flower bed and said “Amazing. These things did in fact come up on their own just like weeds.” “Ain’t life grand?” I said.The women said ” Life is full of miracles both big and small and we will just have to take the time to experience them.” I planted bulbs lots of them all over the property, gladiolas. A neighbor once told me she hated them that they reminded her of funerals. I go over every May. If the gardener doesn’t pull out the shoots the landlord will. The place is a burned relic now in a long painful restoration. I suspect those gladiolas will be popping up, long after I’m interred my ashes a few feet away in the ocean. You can view it yourself.The flower bed is behind a little white picket fence at 10 12TH Place. Long Beach, Ca. I moved next door in the main building at 6 12Th Place. Where if I still stayed there I would have lost everything in that fateful Sunday in October the early morning where the tenants lost two dogs one of them injuring them selves when they had to plummet out of a window from the second story. I had replacement cost insurance but even that would not replace the things I had or my cat at the time.
Dave,
After 27 years of love with my late partner, I find now I loved him more than I imagined, even after the sex grew old, and the times that were difficult. I saw him through his illness as no other would have, because I was dedicated to his happiness and comfort and destination to death.
I’m afraid you don’t exhibit the sincerity nor commitment for a ‘long term’ relationship right at this time. You share great thoughts in your ’self-improvement’ movement, and I have gained strength from your words during my sorrowful time.
But, you are NOT ready. Go on out there and fuck your brains out with every pretty lad that comes along. And play ‘house’ as long as you want. Then, when you truly desire long- term comfort, and security, and devotion, settle down for the rest of your time.
You are not ready. So, quit conning us for what you lamely call advice.
I do thank you for being you, and being there for all of us.
Here it is! Just remember that Bobby Darling is not ready for all the responsibilities that go with a married relationship. He wants the perks but none of the ocmmitments! You can drive a person crazy……
Marry me a little,
Love me just enough.
Cry, but not too often,
Play, but not too rough.
Keep a tender distance
so we’ll both be free.
That’s the way it ought to be.
I’m ready!
Marry me a little,
Do it with a will.
Make a few demands
I’m able to fulfill.
Want me more than others,
Not exclusively.
That’s the way it ought to be.
I’m ready!
I’m ready now!
You can be my best friend,
I can be your right arm.
We’ll go through a fight or two–
No harm, no harm.
We’ll look not too deep,
We’ll go not too far.
We won’t have to give up a thing,
We’ll stay who we are.
Right?
Okay, then.
I’m ready!
I’m ready now!
Someone–
Marry me a little,
Love me just enough.
Warm and sweet and easy,
Just the simple stuff.
Keep a tender distance
So we’ll both be free.
That’s the way it ought to be.
I’m ready!
Marry me a little,
Body, heart, and soul.
Passionate as hell
But always in control.
Want me first and foremost,
Keep me company.
That’s the way it ought to be.
I’m ready!
I’m ready now!
Oh, how gently we’ll talk,
Oh, how softly we’ll tread.
All the stings,
The ugly things
We’ll keep unsaid.
We’ll build a cocoon
Of love and respect.
You promise whatever you like,
I’ll never collect.
Right?
Okay, then.
I’m ready.
I’m ready now.
Someone–
I’m ready!
I’ve been with my partner for a year and a half as well, we’ve lived together for almost the same amount of time. Until I met him my relationships lasted a maximum of three months. I’ve never had the kind of passion with my current partner as I did with the ones before him. I had passion, but nothing more than that. Sometimes I wonder if we will last when I realize how different we truly are and I see the things we might possibly fight about but haven’t come to yet. In many ways he’s my better half, yet I still worry regardless. This relationship is completely different, he’s different because I’m not afraid to be myself around him. I don’t have to pretend to be anything else – just me, and there’s only one other person in the world I’m able to be myself with, my brother. I guess one can tell real love when you have have the ability to strip everything down and yet there’s still a solid core, a foundation if you will. One night I came home after work on the verge of a breakdown. My job is stressful and I work long hours. He was already asleep, so I went to kiss him as I usually do when I get home and woke him up. As soon as he looked at me I started to cry. I felt terrible after a very bad night shift. He didn’t ask questions, but just wrapped his arms around me, and just held me and never has complained about me waking him up in the middle of the night (I’m clumsy and typically wake him up)… I believe that’s love. Do I believe we’ll last, I’ve got no clue, can’t see the future, but I can not imagine my life without him.
I have been with my partner for 8 years, and the gentle pleasure i get from just spending time with the man who has become my best friend is much more fulfilling than the the hot buzz i felt at the start of our relationship. And honestly, the buzz is tiring. The buzz is really the nervous tingle created by all the internal questions you have about your relationship.
Questions like.. is the sex right? am i too passive / too aggressive? where is our relationship going? does he feel the same? Do i like him more than he likes me? Should i tell him i love him? DO i love him? Am i going to get hurt? Why hasn’t he called?? His flatmate/colleague/doctor/friend is hot, do i need to worry? can i trust him??? Am i going to cheat? Where is this going? What am i doing??
The buzz goes away because we find an answer to these questions. The answer is usually- “i’m staying” or “i’m going”. And if you don’t know the answer, with every little part of you than its not meant to be.
I have been married to my husband for nearly 5 years. We’ve been through good times and bad. I love him. We drive each other nuts at times. But we love each other. We don’t climb all over each other whenever the lights go out, but we love each other. We are there for each other.
Is it still like a Disney movie? No. And in a lot of ways it never has been. Having been married more than once over the past 30 years, I find my expectations of life and life partners has changed dramatically over time. The expectations aren’t necessarily lower, but they are different. When I married at 21, I wanted a house with a picket fence and sex at least five times a day.
At 45, and having been recently widowed, I wanted emotional security, health and financial stability. Now at 51, I feel I have a pretty good balance of the things I want in a relationship. There are trade-offs. It’s part of the deal.
Marriage mirrors life in that it should be an ongoing process of problem-solving and self-realization. As our problems (real or perceived) change, so do our expectations, wants, desires, fears, etc. And that influences our choice in partners.
If you love your boyfriend, and you enjoy his company, why not stay with him?
If you want magic, go to Vegas. I’m not saying that magic can’t happen for the two of you, but I am saying that in a true relationship of equals, each of you has to become the magician. There’s no invisible hand from Disney that’s going to reach into the frame and make it happen for you.
Enjoy your life. Enjoy your boyfriend. And for heaven’s sake, put on some clothes. You’ll catch a cold.
I have been married to my current husband for nearly 5 years. We’ve been through good times and bad. I love him. We drive each other nuts at times. But we love each other. We don’t climb all over each other whenever the lights go out, but we love each other. We are there for each other.
Is it still like a Disney movie? No. And in a lot of ways it never has been. Having been married more than once over the past 30 years, I find my expectations of life and life partners has changed dramatically over time. The expectations aren’t necessarily lower, but they are different. When I married at 21, I wanted a house with a picket fence and sex at least five times a day.
At 45, and having been recently widowed, I wanted emotional security, health and financial stability. Now at 51, I feel I have a pretty good balance of the things I want in a relationship. There are trade-offs. It’s part of the deal.
Marriage mirrors life in that it should be an ongoing process of problem-solving and self-realization. As our problems (real or perceived) change, so do our expectations, wants, desires, fears, etc. And that influences our choice in partners.
If you love your boyfriend, and you enjoy his company, why not stay with him?
If you want magic, go to Vegas. I’m not saying that magic can’t happen for the two of you, but I am saying that in a true relationship of equals, each of you has to become the magician. There’s no invisible hand from Disney that’s going to reach into the frame and make it happen for you.
Enjoy your life. Enjoy your boyfriend. And for heaven’s sake, put on some clothes. You’ll catch a cold.
Yep.
Thanks again! Big hug! It might be about a workable semi-commitment, but it still makes me cry reading it and having the music play in my head. And yet there is a truth to not melding completely, about standing side by side but alone at the same time. The notion of not being two halves of one whole, but two whole people joined gently…. married a little, loved just enough. I think that’s the way it ought to be too. Well, most days.
Wish everyone out there could have spent some time with my paternal grandparents, Grandpa died 59 1/2 years to the day from when they were married. Luckily, Grandpa was healthy until shortly before his death. I remember as a very young kid being impressed with the nonverbal communication between Grandpa and Grandma–they were the Grandson and daughter of German immigrants, they farmed nearly all of their married life, they lived through WWI, the depression, WWII, Korea, most of the Vietnam War, and both lived to see men on the Moon, to be in their presence for any amount of time was to experience their love for each other. By todays standards they lived a simple yet tough life–but there are very few people I know today who even come close to devotion and appreciation they had for one another, I think because most of us are unwilling/to busy to give what it takes to build such a relationship. In my case, my partner died of melanoma during the 15th year of our relationship–when the terminal diagnosis was given, it in some ways, catapulted us into what old age might have been like–bittersweet, but joyous for what was and what “is” the last few weeks.
So Davey, don’t think Disney (or for my generation, “Father Knows Best” or “Ozzie and Harriet”) lied to us, they just portray the positive!
Have been in one significant relationship since Walt’s death years ago, what I learned in that relationship is that not everyone, no matter how much love might be involved, is willing to experience what from the outside might be considered the “mundane” routine of everyday life of just making a living. Wish I could tell Grandpa and Grandma how priviliged I feel today for having seen what real loving intimacy is all about–they had the real “magic”.
In the present day, are to many of us addicted to the “rush” of “new chemistry” between two people?
Do you feel better about yourself when you pull others down?
Wow, I didn’t think I would make it through all 126 replies. But I must say, it was worth it. It is impossible to read these words and not be moved by them. Thank you, everyone.
As for me, I have been with my partner for 21 years. Although we have been through good times and bad times, I still get a woody as I drive to the airport to pick him up, and I still blush and smile from ear to ear when we first make eye contact. It is not a Disney film, but it is a deep and abiding love.
I don’t know if we can ever truly ‘know’ another person, but I think we come as close as possible in a long-term relationship. There is great power and freedom in knowing and being known–and having a witness to our lives. It is this that deepens love over time.
Best wishes to all, Josh
-Like- =o)
Davey:
I have been married for almost 20 years and the answer for me is simple:
it is what you make it. it comes from within.
Matt,
You hit the target with your line, “I think it is almost useless to try and convince someone who has never committed to a long term relationship what the merits are.”
I’ll try to remember that the next time I get asked about how one maintains a long-term relationship and keep my big mouth shut!
Email away; happy to help out: mikeasheville@gmail.com
Yes….I agree.
Thank you…….’There is a great power and freedom in knowing and being known……’ you nailed it !!!!!!
Great ending ! Cracked me up!
I completely agree. The butterflies are gone and we don’t
make out on the couch any more but we do everything
together and I can’t imagine life without him. We may not act like
horny teenagers anymore (although I’m always horny), I think
about him all the time and I love sharing my life with him.
If it’s more a chore to be with someone than a choice, then
it’s time to move on.
That made me cry (which I had to hide cuz I’m at work).
I’m 42, and have been with my partner since we were both 19 – going on 24 years together. We met in college.
Of course the butterflies fade.
Of course we’re best friends.
The sex is still very very good.
It’s some luck, and a whole lot of work.
About 7 years ago a friend said he loved watching me smile when my partner walked into the gym every morning. I didn’t realize I was doing that.
I could have written this exact reply.
After 11 years, I could not imagine my life with out him. We share everything.
His thoughts are to dump his current bf and move onto Mitch
My partner and I have been together going on 12 years. Yes, over the years some of the Disney is gone, it’s not sex 10 times a day, and don’t gush at every cute thing, but here is what we DO have.
I still get excited to get a call from him when he’s at work and I am at home, still get excited for e-mails.
We can sit home on a friday and saturday, just the two of us and can still sit up and shoot the shit till 2am. We still notice if one has gotten a haircut, still like to surprise him with flowers for no special occasion, or he’ll get me a shirt or something “just because”.
We’ve just purchased our second home together, both vehicles arein both our names, we share everything except bank accounts and credit cards. He is not just my “partner” he’s my best friend. I would not go out without him if friends wanted to go and he were sick, I’d stay home with him. Yes, everything new causes butterflies, a new car, home, whatever, and that entire NEW rush goes away, but, when you REALLY, truly love someone, beyond only a physical attraction, when you connect with that person heart and soul, it’s a feeling BETTER than the butterflies. I love my man for who he is and that includes his flaws and faults as well as all the positives,and they patch any imperfections. So, in summary, if you are expecting the butterflies and fireworks, you have got to make them together. Make new experiences together, don’t talk about were you’ve been, look forward to where you are going
Ah, that’s sweet. I envy you. You’re living the life.
Dear Davey, you seriously need to get clear on the difference between love and desire. Love is not a feeling, love is an action. Love is paying attention and responding to someone in a way that makes them feel worthy of someone else’s attention. It is a choice you make every day, every minute, to acknowledge the value in someone beside yourself.
Desire is wanting someone else for your own needs. It is wanting someone else for your candy. It is selfish.
You have done a lot of work on yourself, and you want that to be acknowledged and respected. Okay, I acknowledge that and respect it.
But love is recognizing that someone else’s needs are more important than your own. Love is humble, and humbling. You are not a humble person. Perhaps that is what you need to work on. Your partner has more to teach you than all the books in the world. Stick with him and you will learn more than all the gurus you read and quote constantly.
You can change partners, find new lovers, but the one constant will be that Davey Wavey is always there. It only takes one partner. Treasure that first one, because he will reflect back who you really are.
Hey Davey,
The thing in my life that has been most successfull in my 10 years is that we have never lost being inspired to understand one another better or to learn more thouroughly about one another. In a long realtionship the things I think work are working together the concept where when you work together a natural rhythm is born. Things that two strangers could do in 10 min would take the two of you 5 min. Never thinking you know what the other person is feeling always asking. Don’t take things for granted. Don’t assume because they did it the same way everytime that they will do it the same way again even if they do. COMMUNICATION, if you are afraid to speak your mind or they are afraid to speak theirs you will build a rift. Be sure to word your speaking of mind in a manner that is respectful, NO COMPROMISE ON THAT. Take a break when you just need some space spend a couple days apart. Remove judgement, if there are things that you would normally judge someone for doing exempt them from that judgment. Consciously stand by their side and back them up even when you know they are wrong, EVEN IF it’s really wrong. Holding grudges not forgiving and making judgments have to be things that are for all others not the two of you. Complete acceptance if you see weakness quietly find a way to turn that weakness into a strength, you don’t have to say your doing it just do it. Accept their family however different then yours, keep your own beliefs and values even if contradictory to theirs stand behind their beliefs and values NO MATTER WHAT! Give advice if you can with certainty. If they need you, no matter what, you need to be able to be their for them even if that means leaving work for the day, NO EXCEPTIONS. Make them laugh when they want to cry. If they have a problem work with them to figure it out UNTIL A SOLUTION IS FOUND sometimes this is a months or years long process. Never hold grudges or be angry with them if they make you angry ever, find a solution. If it is meant to be you will be like two rivers who meet and then flow to the ocean. In otherwords everything will be reciprocated and in such beauty will grow to the size of a massive ocean where the tides and flows do so in perfect harmony. We all have struggles and tough times, yet some how you both know it is meant to be, you both see THERE CAN BE NO OTHER CHOICE. You don’t usually understand why or what brought you together, but you both do know that you where. Manogamy is not NECESSARILY important what is important is that you share everything hide nothing and show no jealousy. If it does rise up build your constitution of love in the absolute knowing that you know they feel you are the only one for them, and that they know you feel they are the only one for you. BUILD IT ON LOVE! ALL OF IT!!!! When you look at time as it passes after you met and you look at time infinite, somehow they are right there by your side beyond death even beyond heaven it conquers all it is omnipotent and it’s been that way since you met even though you don’t know why. The two of you know if you had to take on all of existence together to save your love that it would happen with ease. Talk about these things with eachother constantly talk about the amazing ways you harmonize completely. When something bugs you about your life tell them tell them the things no one else knows. NEVER in all your realationship EVER have doubts NOT EVEN ONE! If there is one or has been one quickly figure out how to make whatever that doubt is or was a strength and DO NOT doubt that decision.
Kenneth R. Livingston
P.S. There’s lots more not sure if it will all fit on here though and it’s late and want to do something else. But if you have questions feel free to ask I believe my email is attatched. NOT BEING POMPOUS this is just my reality how ever you want to or don’t want to believe it.
Hey Davey,
I dearly hope for you with ALL MY HEART, that same sex love is the same as opposite sex love!
Kenneth R. Livingston
My partner and I have been togather for 12 years. Since I was 21. Granted no butterflies any longer, no sunshine and rainbows, but the mutual respect and the little glimpses of that magic are still there. Sex has waned but we still act like bunny rabbits occasionly. Yes we should all try to aspire to those hieght everyday. No you won’t see it everyday if you did it would be common place, and that would become boring. Thank you for the question. rick
I’ve been with Keyron for almost 17 years now. I still love him like crazy. It isn’t quite as passionate as it was in the beginning but when it is, it’s fantastic.
So there.
Early love is a painful roller coaster. There are wonderful, exciting highs, but there are also crushing lows amidst the confusion of trying to figure out who you are and who he is.
For me the unsustainable tingle and fireworks of the ‘crush’ has been replaced with the soft, warm, comforting glow of security, trust, companionship and love.
I never imagined I could be married to someone so smart, sexy, wonderful and warm.
One piece of advice, Davey: you need to be with your BF to know if it will work. There’s no way you can know this being separated like you are.
Signed, Blissful in Boston.
Hi, Davey.
My partner and I will be celebrating our 20th anniversary next November. We actually met at a conservative Christian seminary, left it of course, and we’ve staked our claim on life together ever since.
“What is love like after five years?”
Our romance was based first on friendship, and that deep connection has never diminished — even though our relationship has evolved and changed over the years. And you’re right: there are ups and downs, definitely.
Magic? Of course. But as we’ve grown together as a couple and as individual persons, we’ve realized that there are more magical things in ordinary life than even Disney could capture.
Good luck to you. You have a wonderful outlook on life, and we’ve enjoyed your blog immensely.
BH
Hey Davey Wavey,
In Armistead Maupin’s “Tales of the City”, Anna Madrigal speaks of her relationship with her deceased husband. When asked what she misses most about him, she replies, “it’s not the sex I miss. It’s the sunsets.”
WOW. i actually have to stop and comment on this post. you are absolutely right. i think daveywavey fell for mitch from the way he interacted with mitch.
his boyfriend right now will be ok though. he’s only 20. still young and anew.
Dear Davey,
I can’t remember what love was like after five years. I can, however, tell you what love is now at almost nine years. In just over a year, I will have spent an entire decade with Mark. For me, love is all it is about. See, Mark is a Leo and Leo’s are horrid, difficult people to be around. He explodes, is self-centered, hardly listens and generally gets on my nerves. Wanna know something interesting? I love everybody part of it! It is completely honest and real. He is who he is and he is with me now. That may change, but I don’t think that will be anytime soon. I wake up and cuddle with him, it’s the best. I kiss him bye when we leave for work. Everyday we have lunch together. We play Wii together and hang out with our friends together. We do have an open relationship which gives us complete freedom within our relationship. In the end, we do love each other very much. But it is not, in my mind, about loving each other…but more about loving us. We have been together so long, that we are not different people as much as we are “us.” Since I love myself, more or less, I love us. He loves us. We love us. There is work, play, “fun,” and the rest…but even if any of that changed, we would still be “us.”
Does that make sense? I hope so…it does at the moment…tomorrow I may think differently!
Love for “us!”
David
I read a lot of the comments and agree with many of them that long-term relationships offer many more rewards than the constant search for “The Butterfly Effect”. I was in a long-term relationship of 27 years (I was 44 at the time) when my partner passed away from Cancer 5 1/2 yeqrs ago. His loss was devastating to me, and I miss him more than I could ever have imagined. I would have given anything to hear him snoring in the bed next to me, or to “suffer” the little annoyances that occasionally drive you crazy in a relationship. After he was gone, I realized that I loved him even more than I had the first years we were together. We had a history together. I also realized that I had taken for granted that he would always be there beside me. I thought we would grow old together. Yes, we had our rough times, but we had many more wonderful times together.
Today I am in another relationship. After Mark had been gone for 2 1/2 years, I entered into a committed relationship with Travis. I had known him for 15 years as a good friend. Timing and our situations evolved to a point that we knew we loved one another and we are very happy and compatible together. The sex thing was a little odd at first, but we are very happy now! He is in nursing school and I help him study for his classes.
So, I guess I agree with the majority of your responder’s who believe that the joys of a long-term, committed relationship far out-weight the temporary thrill of the “butterflies” from a constrant stream of new lovers. Where will that get you in the end? One day you may not be able to attract the hot studs you attract now. Who wants to spend their twilight years alone if you don’t have to?
I have read every one of the comments and some comments myself earlier.
In additiuon to what we have been saying to eachother and along with the fewer comments that remind us that thereare other ways to relate as gay men, I have had one recurring thought.
So may heteros, especially those who are really homophobic, have most likely heard so many gay men speak so sincerely about LOVE; about the idea of really long-term and/or permanent relationships.
So many, even well-meaning str8s, think that all we care about is sex and the more we get from the more person, the better all of us always like it.
For example, many in favor of DADT, sincerely, but ignorantly,think every gay service man is aching to get into his pants and fuck or rape him, because he has been raised to believe that gay men are all sexmaniacs and do not desire love.
The major tenor of these comments that we are fully human just as everytone else; that we love sex, but as much or more companionship and love….and that many of us seek permanence in our human (and gay) relationships. I wish this set of comments were very publicly * widell available.
Bravo
I can’t get used to gays using the fag word anymore than I can accept blacks calling each other the “N” word.
Then you never have, and are a lady in waiting.
I like the line “Like moths to a flame..” a REAL scandalous line in the ’20’s.
Okay now I’ve got the cards Who’s going to sit where for dinner? and I hope the caterer’s don’t screw up while the cook’s out on holiday.SOS.just different bank accounts.
After being wined and dined at all the ‘it” restaurants and then the other half decides to take gourmet cooking classes, it makes a man want to go to a “normal” srangers house and join them for dinner of leftover meatloaf.
Butterflies are free and so should you be.
Sidebar:
Davey never talks about, talky walkies with, nor even seems interested in anyone who is not cute, twink and younger than he. Yet judging from the above, Davey seems to have huge numbers of middle aged or older readers.
Hmmm…why?
Hey Mike,
I’m insulted, kidding, but I’m only in my mid 20’s and so is she, lol.
Kenneth R. Livingston
Marriage is very hard work needing determination, selflessness, and a belief in the value of partnerships. If you cannot put another person first at times, and sometimes it will be for a lengthy period of time, marriage just isn’t for you …
http://www.ashortguidetoahappymarriage.com
I have been with my best friend for 25 years. Good times, bad times. Still madly in love. Can’t imagine life with out him. I knew the moment we met. Don’t over rate sex. It’s great, but like an organism, it’s fleeting. Go with your heart and understand love for what it is. The joining of souls.
Davey,
I won’t be saying much here that hasn’t already been said, but I’ll pass along my experiences nonetheless. Michael and I have been together for over six and a half years now, and in October 2008 we got married in Massachusetts, though we live in Illinois. Our Disney-movie stage was brief–it only lasted around six months (although he does a lot of musical theatre, and I do occasionally still feel like I live in a musical…), and we moved in together when we had been together for less than a year.
But I realized something. The butterflies aren’t the magic. The magic *is* the friendship. Many here have talked about how the sex has waned, the butterflies are gone, and one fellow even said, “Show me a happy marriage and I’ll point out the lobotomy scars.” I don’t get butterflies when my phone rings and it’s Michael–I get the feeling that he’s left something at home and needs me to bring it to him. We argue about how to decorate, and grumble about the checkbook, but at the end of the day, we are friends. Things aren’t perfect–no marriage, no relationship between any two people no matter how compatible, can possibly be perfect. But if you have that friendship, that mutual respect and affection for one another, you see that’s the magic of the relationship.
Six and a half years. I am twenty-seven, but that six and a half years feels like it’s been my whole life. We may argue about what color shower curtain to buy, but I can’t imagine having to pick one out by myself, or going to the grocery store alone, or, hell, filing only one set of taxes.
It honestly just wouldn’t be as fun without him.
I hope that helps…
~Daniel
You get what you put out. If you’re looking for love a-la Disney, you end up with a cartoon. And all cartoons end. If you’re only looking for hot sex and butterflies in your stomach, that is an unrealistic approach to real life. I’ve been with my partner for 6 years now (and dated for 4 years before we decided to take that plunge). I found a wonderful guy who is worth building a life together with. A fantastic long term relationship is not for quiters. Sure, there is always someone hotter out there. Some piece of eye candy. And on the other side, sure there are days (weeks – months) where do don’t get along/fight/can’t stand the guy. But what are you really building for YOUR life? What is it YOU really want out of a relationship. Davey is always talking about knowing yourself first – loving yourself first. So I’m a bit surprised by this question. A relationship doesn’t make you better or worse – but it can really add a wonderful facet to your wonderful life. A wonderful book that really helped me with my coming out process and the building of who I am was the book ‘The Male Couple’ by David P. McWhirter MD and Andrew M Mattison MSW PhD. copywrite 1984. I know it’s an older book, but it really goes into detail about male relationships over short and long term periods.
Davey,
Please do not mistook that butterflies as sign of love, they are just sign excitement, not love
Imagine that you have won a huge prize, something you really like and always wanted, and you have to walk a few blocks to get it… you will have that butterflies too when you walk that few blocks, when you first get it and took it home for few days after when you tell people about it… but then after a sometime, that prize is just normal, it has become part of your everyday life, nothing much exciting, no more butterflies…
Hence I guess Love is just a word created to describe “something”…. I’m not sure what is that “something”. But for me that “something” between my bf and I is the great companionship for each other. My small life bubble that I have when I’m single has expanded when I have a long term bf, its better, but not exciting… And i guess the same for hetero couple who have children, their life bubble expands more and its even better, but its still not exciting, just their everyday life…
Don’t get me wrong, everyday life is awesome…
I can tell you that after almost four years, yes the magic does wan but it just becomes a comforting glow. When you look at that person or feel there touch the magic is still there, it’s just hiding in amongst the day to day life that we live. It may not always be apparent that there is magic and singing birds but they are there in the way that you look at each other and the passion you feel for one another. The singing is in the little things, like when he brings you a flower because you feel down or sick, or when he offers to go with you to the clinic because you are nervous, but in the end I think that each person has there own definition of what the magic is and depending on their view it may or may not still be there. I do however, know that even after 4 years with the same man, I still have the spark and nothing is better than that.
Davey, your absolutely cute, and I enjoy watching your talky blogs online. Your also insane (but in a goodway). I have been with my current partner nearly 4 years now, and yes at first the butterflies were storming the walls of my stomache. They have quieted down now, and I occasionally feel a “flutter” of wings. Personaly for me, love is not a Disney movie with singing bluebirds. Its more like screaming evil witches most of the time. But for me, thats what makes this relationship work. We yell at each other more than we say “I love you”, but thats just the way we work together.
I have been with my boyfriend for almost 4 years. I’m 29 years old now and certainly not in my prime anymore.
Last summer I went through an early “mid-life crisis” and decided it was time for our relationship to end. I had met a boy of only 20 and became somewhat infatuated with him. While my boyfriend (or ex at the moment) continued to live together, we did not spend much time together. I spent every moment I could with my “infatuation” and avoided being home.
Long story short, my boyfriend and I are back together. We were officially apart for a month or so and what I realized in that time is that no infatuation or excitement of the “new” could match what I had with my boyfriend. There is a level of comfort that you achieve when you have spent so much time with someone. They know you… often better than you know yourself. To be honest, the prospect of going through all of that learning process with the infatuation was daunting, and really not one I was looking forward to. After spending a month with that new boy I realized that no matter what, no one was going to match up to my boyfriend and I would spend the rest of my life wondering why I threw that away.
We as humans are not perfect and as such cannot expect the product of two humans being together to be perfect too. Anyone who claims to have the perfect storybook relationship is delusional or is self medicating. To be honest, the feeling I get knowing that my boyfriend understands me and accepts me is better than any butterflies that I would get from the “new” relationship.
Is life perfect? No. Do we have the butterflies and the excitement of that initial dating? No. To be honest, the first year of our relationship, though exciting, was hell. Constantly worrying if the other person is being honest, faithful. Granted this was all a product of a previous unfaithful partner, but they are still issues you have to deal with. I’m quite content… yes content with my relationship. Is it storybook? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Can I imagine life without him?
Only for a month… and that was a miserable hell I don’t want to visit again.
Nice of you to share such a personal piece of your life. I enjoyed reading it and totally understood what you went through and why you are back where you should be. Inspiring!
Davey,
Relationships are like snowflakes; no two are exactly alike. At that point in your existance, if you desire a lifelong mate, you will know and both of you will decide how to walk forward in life together. And yes, sometimes you will walk far apart and sometimes way too close together. If you have to think about it…it is not time yet.
Peace,
Rick in Chapel Hill, NC
Yes, Rick in Chapel Hill,
You said, “If you have to think about it…it is not time yet.” and I couldn’t agree more with you. I’ve hoped Davey and Scotty actually live together for a time. If they do, it will become clear very quickly whether they “have to think about it.” If they aren’t up to the opportunity and challenge, they are not up to it for sure, at least for now.
Seb in Western NC (and the snow. Haha)
On February 9, 2010 3:34pm ‘Another John’ wrote:”Is it me or is every fag in this world named John? Hi me also John!
I read some of the comms but come on davey these boring old sexless queens need 2 get off their comps & start livin it up. 4get ur lil twink. We are waaaaay 2 young 2 b in a LTR. U had fun in AUS & GOOD ON U!
Ur young ur hot & its time 2 play yaay :p
kiss kiss baby boy 4 syd-ner-nee” … You sir, are the perfect embodiment of the completely vacuous, self-obsessed, self-centred, selfish ignorami who sadly, more often than not, are the face of what we, laughably call our Gay “community”. Your attitude typifies everything that is mean, cheap and self-serving in what is, regrettably, but in many ways correctly portrayed as a pleasure seeking, thoughtless and empty lifestyle, where we, gays, are but effete vamps, more interested in how to satisfy either a craving for the latest fashion trend or the between our legs (read that as you will).
I’m not suggesting that life should be or is, without excitement, pleasure, dreams or desires. Far from it and I am by no means claiming to be or have been a celibate angle – in fact quite the contrary. Nevertheless I know the meaning and value of being in love, loving someone and commitment to a relationship and I would never, never – let me repeat that again for you in case you are slow on the uptake, I would never disrespect nor refer so disparagingly, to people who opened up to us all and so wonderfully shared something very intimate and personal with us.
They did this in answer to a very honest question from Davey and one that ultimately laid him open to some reflection and questioning from us his www friends. They also did it, I like to think, in the hope that it will help all of us who are SO fortunate to have met someone with whom we can and hope to share the rest of our lives. The richness of soul and the joy that this brings to our lives is beyond price, for who could offer one of us anything we would trade in place of the loving relationship we have with our partner?
You let yourself down and the rest of our “community” in your “just for kicks” thoughtless response. Shame on you! In my opinion you ought to apologise for this graceless fau pas!
Stop squandering your time here and lear to value what is important. As my fellow islander once put it “Youth is wasted on the young” or words to the affect. There are none to whom tomorrow is so precious as those to whom it looks uncertain -think on!
Scott.
Thanks for a thought provoking and valuable insight. I agree whole heartedly that shared memories are a wonderful cement to a life together!
Scott
I agree with you both! I always thought that love was this Disney movie, with rockets and singing cartoon birds . . . instead it’s more like an old sex in the city rerun . . . or lack there of in my case. I’ve been with my bf Michael for a year . . . and I can’t hel but lay in bed at night wondering if I can stay in this relationship for the rest of my life! Last night i actually slept on the couch . . . we haven’t had sex since like Thanksgiving . . . and when I tried again last night I got the stooooop I’m too tired. So J, if ur near NH hit me up and we can do coffee
lol
Davey Gravy
Maybe you need to learn to appreciate your BF every day in some way, or, maybe you need to grow up some more.
I didn’t read the other comments. I didn’t want to color my answer. After 6 or 7 years, like us you will both have gone through a pretty good set of mutual transformation from being around each other. As a couple you will either decide whether you want more of x, y, z….and how you will go about getting it. Whatever it is. OR you might decide you are happy with what you have. You may come to compromises or arrangements, or you may live happily in what others would call a rut. But one thing I hope you never do is take any other couple as an example to follow, as we are all unique. Relationships are not something to be trended, but dissected at the individual level. Examine the comments you see in this post with extreme caution. The options are not the best for everyone.
Davey, both of you will just know what to do. Even if that means not being together. Remember that everything happens to (eventually) suit something else. Cause and effect. But you know this already, bucko.
Hi from DC!
A-Ron