It seems to me that most religions – at their cores – are about love. They’re about loving yourself, your life, your family, your neighbors and God.
Around this core of love, we’ve added countless layers of rules, regulations and details. And then more details. And then still more. As these details diverge from one religion to the next, our separate belief systems are born. Some people believe this, and others believe that.
Of course, it’s up to each of us to find which belief system (if any) resonates with our own.
The resulting diversity of religions is really a beautiful thing; it adds a great amount of color, culture and interest to the world. It is something to be celebrated. However, the issues arise when we get caught up in the details and start enforcing our beliefs on the people around us. Though born from religions rooted in love, the result of these conflicts is often anger, violence and hate.
To move past these conflicts, we must adopt a new perspective. In the same way that each of us found a belief system that works for us, why not allow others the freedom to do the same? Though the details may be different, the love behind them is indistinguishable.
September 9, 2011 at 10:25 am
Religion isn’t about love at all. It’s about power. Faith can be about love, though. Religion basically says “if you love us, you -must- hate everyone who’s not us”. Sure, there are exceptions, but the bottom line is that religion and faith can be two entirely different things, and only one can love unconditionally.
September 15, 2011 at 1:13 am
I totally agree. Religion is a cover for many people’s hate, racism, and bigotry. It speaks volumes about the reasons people join organized churches and religious groups. One’s faith should remain private between the individual and whoever their creator may be.
September 9, 2011 at 10:25 am
Davey u never respond to my emails
I’ve sent u like 3 and I’ve never gotten a response! 
where can I get in touch with u???
September 9, 2011 at 10:47 pm
@Valdemort: Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar?
September 10, 2011 at 9:58 am
Voldemort don’t feel so down Davey gets thousands of email’s not to many of us have heard back. You know he loves you and all your friends here we love as well. Just be patient and he’ll get to you soon. Don,t take it personally. In the mean time you have us if you need to talk and get advice.I Love and so does Davey. Your friend forever Nathan.
September 9, 2011 at 10:34 am
Hi Davey,
Speaking as a member of a religious order in the Episcopal Church, there is one bit of your blog that really jumps out at me as what I believe is the inherent problem.
“However, the issues arise when we get caught up in the details and start enforcing our beliefs on the people around us.”
And in this very statement, you are EXACTLY right.
One of the things that I tell people quite often is that there are 30,459 denominations of Christianity in the world today. If you’re a member of one that doesn’t feed your spirit, then please find one that does. I think it’s irresponsible that some people elect to beat someone about the head and shoulders, verbally or otherwise, based on a difference in faith expression.
In the faith communities that I come from, I’ve always been encouraged to think for myself and not to hold others in contempt if they don’t think the same way I do. The greatest commandments in the Christian church is to love the Lord God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. This tells me that all other manner of things is secondary and that we must always seek to love.
I’m not entirely sure where other denominations get their doctrines of hate, but I tell ya… I’m gonna love them anyway even thought I might not understand them.
I hope you’ll check out our website. A lot of the ways in which you live your life and the message that you send to blog buddies really does mirror Celtic Spirituality.
September 9, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@Eli Irvin: “Celtic spirituality” ?! Aside from the obvious question/point :Aren’t all spiritualities equal,regardless of ethnicity?, I have to ask whether you know that ancient Celtic spirituality was heavily invoved in human sacrifice,specifically be-heading?
September 9, 2011 at 7:22 pm
As a seminarian turned down from being ordinated within the last year before being ordinated because I’m epileptic, I’ve actually benefited from not becoming a priest. At first, I was angry, but saw that was no solution and while working at a group home for wards of the state, I ended up becoming guardian to a 15 year old teenager that had no home to go back to, but didn’t otherwise need to be a ward of the state. I became licensed as a foster parent and ended up over 20 years taking in 18 teenagers so they could finish school rather than live on the streets. I agree that I didn’t always see everything their way, but I never threatened any of them with putting them back on the street. Their future was for them to choose, my future was to give them the opportunity to do that. Is that what you are calling love.
September 9, 2011 at 10:34 am
the issue inevitably arises when someone is told that they are already 100% right and correct, no further investigations into truth and love are necessary. It gets worse for those who think they have a direct line to the creator in their head, they confuse their immediate reaction to anything with a hint from god.
And one universal truth is that any type of sex you aren’t immediately interested in, is icky, So they confuse that reaction with God’s reaction, and proceed to write down that God hates who ever doesn’t like the type of sex that doesn’t appeal to the author of this holy text.
That’s My Hypothesis, anyway.
September 9, 2011 at 10:38 am
Double negatives there, i meant: God hates who ever “likes” the type of sex that doesn’t appeal to the author of this holy text.
September 9, 2011 at 10:38 am
Ooops… I keep tagging the website wrong. It’s http://www.saintaelred.org.
September 9, 2011 at 11:25 am
i hope i dont get my head bitten off again by one of ur blog followers but here goes. i am a christian here in the uk and it is true that christianity is built on love, however it does get tricky when the ”rules” come in. as someone who has many gay friends and also works closely with families from other denominations i find it hard sometimes to balance the two. for me the most important thing is that i show god’s love through my love and compassion for others, probably why i became a nurse. im not saying all christians are the same but u cannot judge all people just because they are christians just as u cant judge someone for being gay,
jo xxxx
September 11, 2011 at 3:22 am
@Jo Sowerby:Hi Jo.
Sorry you;ve had the experience of having had your “head bittten off” in these pages__I doubt
it will happen this time__but I’ve had that happen a few times myself.I think it happens for at least
2 or 3 reasons.1): Communication is difficult.Seems as if even when one is going out of the way to be as clear as possible AND as inoffensive as possible troubles happen. 2): Many people don’t read either careully or thoroughly. 3):Some readers begin with their own expectations & agendas & prejudices & see what they want,or expect to see.As an example,in the comments section of another site where the dicussion was about changing attitudes toward acceptance of same sex marriage,I started by recalling that before this movement gained momentum,the attitude of my then closeted self & of my more enlightened straight friends was “Who the F cares ?” “What dierence does it make?” I then went on to cite,a some lenghth the Constitutional amendments guaranteeing equal treatment under the law.I got one very angry respose from a member of a distressed gay couple which began: “Who the F cares?”!!! “What difference does it make?”!! and continuing with a thorough head biting.
September 11, 2011 at 12:13 pm
coming from a family of seven children, I’ve seen the initial responses of my older and younger brothers’ and sisters’ marriages were half were in the same religion and the other halves partners were from another Christian belief. one would have thought that the Crusades started again. Whatever happened to looking at the persons my family members were marrying and see how good they were for them. Ironically, the oldest Catholic/Protestant marriage has just celebrated their 40th anniversary while the oldest Catholic/Catholic marriage ended in divorce. I’ve never considered marriage, (I was originally to be a priest but after spending years in the seminary, was turned down because I’m epileptic). My family is a mere microcosm of one Church but ultimately the most of them are happy amonst the choices they made. Another Crusade, if you will, starts if I find the right guy for me. That will begin with looks of horror on many of my families faces. So, Jo, I have no intent on biting your head off by your saying that inter/intra faith marriages or heterosexual or same sex marriages should be seen individually for their power or lack of power of love. As I mentioned in a previous reply, “who would anyone prefer to have as a next door neighbor : a gay couple in peace and love, or a heterosexual couple were the guy beats his wife regularly”. Patrick
September 9, 2011 at 11:26 am
This is why I’m agnostic. No mere mortal is going to tell me what to do or how to live my life. God gave me a brain to think for myself and allow me the freedom to live as I choose! Religion is man made, spirituality is not. There have been more violent acts committed in the name of religion than anything else. Religion, in my humble opinion, is the largest plague on society that has ever exsisted! Therefore I will not subscribe to it’s man made doctrines and ideologies!
September 9, 2011 at 11:30 am
I agree with Jeroen that religion is about power,… power supported by money. And it seems that fear and hate are more powerful motivational forces than love. Organized religion has been responsible for much of the world’s misery throughout history.
September 9, 2011 at 11:31 am
I’m a gay Christian and let me tell you that you are 100% correct! The Church never wants to move on from everything! They always want to continue to believe in the same thing forever, and they always think they are 100% correct, even if they are wrong! The Bible says to test which is right or wrong. (or something along those lines) but they don’t, they stay where they are, I don’t understand why they think they know so much about the bible but yet, they obviously don’t listen to what it says!
September 9, 2011 at 11:34 am
You’ve asked a difficult question with an automatic bias – not all religions are about love and many of them don’t support hate. Let’s take something familiar: Christianity
Gay men are often born into families where the version of Christianity they are raised with tells them that they, and the men they fall in love with, are not accepted. this becomes an identity crisis on top of already coming out as a gay man: stay with this religion or leave it?
To stay means some kind of wrestling, some version of self-acceptance or self-denial where a gay man either comes to terms with not being fully accepted, or discovering a version of Christianity that does accept him and his loves. The most successful of these people that I’ve met personally learn to separate faith (the act of self-instrospection, belief and connection to the Divine) from politics (church edicts, history, and conservative oppression.) People who can love their most evangelical family members but not sacrifice their identities are, to me, the heroes.
To leave a religion means leaving the vocabulary of faith we may have been raised with, the family and friends who still believe in it, as well as the faith community that may or may not have supplied support and understanding about things that were not purely material. For example: shelter from a hurricane, support after the death of a spouse, food during a recession – these are all ways in which faith communities excel. (Politics aside) The most successful of these divorcees (in my opinion) are those who leave on good terms, recognize the gifts they leave behind, but still make peace with all such communities even if they themselves don’t need them. In one example: the Salvation Army does good works, but I could never belong to them.
So I caution you Davey, as well as all your numerous wonderful readers, to make a clear distinction on how a religion is lived (individual by individual), and how it is espoused (by the media, by conservatives, by hate-filled organizations, etc. etc.)
Reject those who tell you religions prosper or inhibit love or hate. That’s a gross generalization. Accept those who person-by-person make that decisions in their hearts and follow that personal choice toward or away from their concept of the Divine.
Much love,
TJ (Minister)
September 9, 2011 at 4:01 pm
I applaud you, TJ for enjoining us to resist generalizations of this kind, which always tend toward harm and away from understanding.
But I think the original point stands; person by person religious people choose their own path to the divine. In the case of Christianity this is also done. However encouragements to love and accept are very general, nebulous and rare in the Old and New testaments by comparison to the frequent, specific and clear urgings concerning exactly how to hate those whom god (or rather the “prophet” representing him) also hates.
This would not be so bad, if it were not also written canon that the highest good is obedience to god, who insofar the books are concerned has made his preferences clear.
So those inclined to love will pay attention to those parts that extol the virtues of love while those inclined to hate will pay attention to the hatreds. But the disaster happens when those inclined to hate will remind those who prefer love that obedience is better than love (according to the holy writ) and that it is wrong to love those whom god enjoins you to hate (namely, us queers).
I can’t see any way around this besides totally ignoring the parts about hatred, or somehow pretending that hatred was good then but love is better now; though that may be a poverty of my imagination. Anyhow I see the whole Nash equilibrium of this perilous equation as a bunch of concerned parents sending their kids to conversion therapy, so…not pretty.
September 10, 2011 at 10:19 pm
I agree with what you’re saying, and I think many of Davey’s readers are talking about those Christians who have a negative view of being gay and are very self righteous about it. I almost was ordained a Catholic priest, who would have required being celibate, but was turned down at the end because I’m epileptic not because I was gay. Actually, I’m still a virgin – whether with a guy or girl. And I’m over 50. The problem with religion is really as our society is not understanding as a whole, and some use religion, some use gays in the military as a way of supporting their fears, hatred, and ignorance as excuses to back their beliefs of gays vs. straight. Our society has to come to grips with accepting others’ preferences , regardless if we agree with them or not. And that is true for gays accepting straights, but in the end we must not mistreat others who are different. Some of my best friends are straight or celibate priests. We have more in common than mere sex or race, and ultimately, my religious beliefs are based on my relationship with Jesus Christ and how I’ve respected him, not any particular religious group. I’ve taken in homeless kids, teenagers who needed a home and be able to finish school, after the Catholic church refused to ordain me. Some of those kids were Catholic or of a Protestant belief, one was even Jewish, but the thing that they had in common was they had a bad home situation that they grew up in to the point they ran away or were thrown out. One kid, while living with me, was bullied by other classmates because he was living with a queer. That is simply not right. Jesus promoted peace not violence, he even forgave those who saw to his crucifixtion. Let’s all treat others as equals and with peace, trying to make all live happier regardless of their particular beliefs through our thoughts, words, and actions. Patrick
September 9, 2011 at 11:46 am
Former Catholic and now Unitarian Universalist but with strong Quaker attraction. The institutions that call themselves religions may ‘preach’ love but it is conditional love in many cases. Like the parent who says I will love you IF you are the kind of child I want. Vs the parent who says I love you as you are. I am a spiritual person, mostly, with a strong basis in nature and natural forces. Institutions that have any hierarchical basis make me leery. I really hate when another human stands on a podium and looks down at me and tries to be self important.
The High Power I know is an all loving, all accepting and creative energy with no particular agenda except for peace.
September 9, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Davey, is it hate or just self-righteous fervor? Some Christians will say they can hate the sin and love the sinner. Many believe they are doing God’s work when they are castigating others’ conduct. Some religionists subscribe to a Manichean world view–the forces of good vs. the forces of evil. They see the world as engaged in an eternal struggle. Osama bin laden and his followers believe that the West and its culture represent evil in the world. George Bush and his followers believe that Al Queda represent evil in the world. George Bush invades Iraq to rid the world of an evil dictator and leaves a path of death and destruction throughout Iraq. Bin laden sends two planes into the World Trade Center and one into the Pentagon. Both Bush and Bin laden proceed from a place of religious certitude. When used as a justification for violent action, religion is a dangerous thing.
And yet, there are many of religious faith who continue to do good works, preaching love and acceptance and giving comfort to the downtrodden and the poor. It’s a mixed bag, really. I say beware the fundamentalists of any faith.
September 9, 2011 at 12:18 pm
I also agree with Jeroen – religion is about power. The ‘rules’ of a religion ultimately serve to propagate, increasing the number of followers of a religion, hence it’s power.
We gays and some others do not propagate very well, and therefore we are generally not welcome to feel the love and ‘bask in His glory’.
No worries: Love without religion works extremely well. It comes without dictates, restrictions nor classifications. It comes from within. I think that this is the purest and truest love.
September 9, 2011 at 12:54 pm
It’s the belief that my belief is ‘right’ that creates conflict. We hold ourselves to be superior because of our religious beliefs and separate from one another making someone else ‘wrong’. This is the destructive essence of judgment. The truth is we are all connected, and want the same things in life: to experience love. HOW it looks may appear different, but underneath we are all the same. The need to “be right” divides us. Puts us in a space of justification, control, and punishment instead of freedom. The Golden rule common to all religions is the thread than runs through our humanity – treat everyone the way you want to be treated. Who wants to be treated to criticism and judgment? Yet this is what we do…until we learn to let this go, we cannot find peace within ourselves or with others.
September 9, 2011 at 2:36 pm
Hi Davey, I am a American that lives in Madrid, Spain and the reason I am here is because in Texas like most of America there is not any same sex marriage, and here I live in Peace and Married to my partner who I have lived with for 17 years, Life has been great here being able to be who I am. THEN, a few weeks ago we had the Pope come to visit for 4 days and they had over 1 1/2 million people (15 to 30 years old) come to see him, which was fine, but one of the things the Pope was here for was to say that the gays are in sin and the government should not let us be able to marry, well this is very sad because the kids visiting here were walking around our homes praying and singing to help us GAY’s!!! I know that I believe in a God, but my God has nothing to do with a Pope, and my God does not have any laws, but for one which is “What ever I do, I should not scare the horses” I feel really bad for all the young people because of how they will grow up thinking of others that do not think like the Pope is training them to think. I can not respect someone that does not respect who I am. I have to say that Religion is the root of all Evil!! Miguel Ravago
September 11, 2011 at 12:27 pm
I’m curious if and how many Popes have been Closet Gay priests?
September 9, 2011 at 2:39 pm
true christianity isn’t a religion, it’s a personal relationship with christ.
September 12, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Zach, as simple as your one liner may seem, that is about as exact and to the point as it truly is.
September 9, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Religion has always been about power & control & is the scourge of the earth & has been the cause of 99% of the world’s conflicts & grief since time began. The human race has not evolved from this neanderthal mind set 1 bit. U don’t need religion 2 b a decent human being – in fact u will be a better person w/o it. All u need is “do unto others”.
September 9, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Great post & ensuing dialogue,D.W.
Like alot of people,I fall squarely into the category of wishy-washy:Believe Everything/Believe Nothing/Don’t Know.
I believe that for all of their good and bad points,relgions [organizations,doctrines,individual believers] are prone to tribalism :Us,NOT Them / infighting / OPRESSIVE and REPRESSIVE RULES for membership & behavior [love being an abomination to the Lord,myself] / EXCLUSION,rather than INCLUSION / ABSOLUTISM, not RELATIVISM. Unfortunately,perhaps tragically___I’ve preached this sermon before in these blog pages__:This tribalism shows itself too often in the gay community.
September 9, 2011 at 10:58 pm
@ Patrick Corrigan: [any relation to Brent?] Your story.your actions are incredibly inspiring.If what you are doing ISN’T LOVE,the word has no meaning.THANK YOU!!
September 11, 2011 at 12:33 pm
only relation to Brent Corrigan is same sexual preference but I like his monthly facebook page. That’s only a stage name for him. He certainly is cute though.
September 9, 2011 at 11:22 pm
I agree 1000% Davey!! It’s all quite hypocritical IMHO!
September 9, 2011 at 11:52 pm
Many (christian) divisions expect you to be what they want you to be otherwise you can’t be in their ‘club’.Many good people put up with this nonsense for the sake of friends and family and the fear of being ostracised.I agree with Zach above,”true christianity isn’t a religion,It’s a personal relationship with Christ’.Spirituality not religion.
September 10, 2011 at 12:03 am
Hi Friends my name is Nate and I thought I would give my take on this. First lets establish that spiritual belief and religion are two separate issues. I have a personal relationship with the God of the bible not to be labled as christian which is a man made word. I take the the foundation of and basic principles of the bible meaning God the creator and I believe 100% of Jesus and his character in which the bible teaches,dying for our sins and so forth. Beside that what I take out into to the world is the true teachings of Christ love,equality,forgiveness,compassion and the freedom of choice. I will say right I am a devoted God loving Gay believer,yes a if you want to say gay christain and I am not ashamed. I know that God made us all in his own special perfectly crafted way and made no mistakes in doing so. Knowing this I will never be force or bullied into wearing a mask that I was not sent to this earth with. I accept that I am who i am and i just like everybody was made in the amazing image of a perfect creator. Man since the beginning has put their own touches on things that were right from the beginning to use for power and own selfish ideals. Love U all never hide from who you are a amazing part of this world that man has no right to refute. God Bless!
September 10, 2011 at 1:02 am
@Nathan A Stewart:
Couldn’t we say that all religions and beliefs are as good/bad as the total of the Good and Evil [and all points IN-BETWEEN] of their believers’ beliefs and of their actions? I think so.
September 10, 2011 at 12:14 am
What I believe is that religion is nothing more than the need for us to understand something. when we humans don’t understand something before science we would attach it to a God for example “god of rain, god of the sun, god of thunder, god of earth,god of fire, god of the sea, or people would say something like an eclipse is an omen, etc…”, but after we could understand how these things work we don’t need the gods for that, unfortunately at least one God will always exist as long as there are humans because our minds at least currently are incapable of coming up with a tested theory of how life came to be and the meaning of our existence, the majority of people will go with the God route, me personally would go with the evolution theory for the first part as to how life began and to the last one I don’t believe that there is any meaning to our existence we ourselves give meaning to our existence, for example I don’t believe that animals concern themselves if there is a god or not they just live. Unfortunately we as humans want to live for a long time if possible forever ” Afterlife” and some people take advantage of that and tell people if you do this or that, oh I almost forgot “If you give me money ” you will live forever when you go to heaven, and the worst part is they don’t even have to deliver. On another thing what baffles my mind is how most religious people are in the military or approve and endorse the military ” republicans” are against gay and not killing I remember some republicans and a soldier on a video of the training for the end of DADT ask the question, but what if homosexuality is against my religious beliefs? do they not think before they speak daaa killing is one of the 10 commandment and they would willfully go against a commandment that they are actually committing,but god forbid they share a barrack with a gay if they do they will go to hell for something the are not even doing themselves and last time I checked they haven’t added an 11 commandment saying “you should not be homosexual”
September 10, 2011 at 12:37 am
@Superboy:Hi,Supe,bet you’re cute! Actually I’ve always had a fascination with heroes’ boy side- kicks:as an adolescent,was turned on by Bomba the Elephant Boy,aka:Johnny Sheffield.Have wondered how Batman & Robin would have fared in the military under DADT.
Anyway,there’s no need for an 11th Commandment:That was covered in Leviticus in which we all get to be “abomination[s] unto the Lord.” Oh well,at least we get disapproved by the Highest!
September 10, 2011 at 12:57 am
Nathan A Stewart you are awesome i agree with you 99.99% of the way, and I agree with Davey mostly as well
September 10, 2011 at 1:11 am
@T-rev:Nice thoughts….and I’m glad it’s not T-rex!
September 10, 2011 at 4:26 am
I think that Tao is a spiritual way simple and deep for all of us.
September 10, 2011 at 5:31 am
hey davey wavey
love what you do
your videos helped me alot
it’s funny that you brought this up ’cause i have been thinking about this alot over the past year
i was raised in a conservative muslim family in kuwait and i knew in a young age that i liked men
but i struggled with my faith islam and it’s harsh stand against homosexuality
i couldn’t change who i am , i accepted myself and i was content and happy but in order for me to do that i had to create a distance between myself and religion (islam is this case)
i felt comfortable when i created that distance
i used common sense to gain understanding why religion rejects homosexuality and i reached this simple conclusion :
religion wants more followers and if a man and a women who are within the religious institution they can breed more followers who are born and that religious institution becomes their home and they will almost never leave it
BUT if a man and a man or a woman and a woman get together they will never breed followers (the couple might adopt or get a surrogate partner)
so the religious institution sees that as a problem that gets in the way and therefore it needs to be fixed or worse eliminated .
so what do you guys think ?
September 10, 2011 at 9:30 am
i think you have a gr8 perspective-i very very much value your perspective.
September 11, 2011 at 3:48 am
@saud.
saud,I agree with you completely! What you say about procreation makes sense,and I think you reinforce what I said earlier about tribalism.Most religions ,especially the three great “Abrahamic ” monotheisms,begin with a chosen tribe and/or a specific geographic location.
I believe that most organizations,however good or bad their intentions [and among organizations I would include organized religions,charities,medical organizations,universities,and political partys] are like organisms:rejecting anything perceived as foriegn,or as threatening their survival & expansion.
September 10, 2011 at 7:46 am
If anyone here has evidence for the existence of God, please let me know. Personally, I think that God, Allah or the gods of pantheistic religions are the creation of man himself. Man created God, defined his personality, and then handed down God’s laws. Our religious texts are all at least 2000 years old, created in an age before history and before science. How were these tribal, ancient societies to make sense of natural phenomena? Some ascribed supernatural powers to the heavens above–the sun, the moon, and the planets. Others, like the ancient Greeks, created gods for the different aspects of human experience–the god of love, the god of war, the god of the seas, etc. The monotheistic religions are based upon divine revelation. Every society has had its mystics and spiritual shamans. Were Moses and Mohammed truly in communication with God or were they highly self-deceptive individuals. In my own experience I have met highly religious individuals who have a high propensity for self-deception to the extent that they proclaim themselves to be prophets. And what about those tv preachers who claim they talk to God on a regular basis?It just solidifies my belief that so much of religion i s bunk. I really do think that religion exercises more power over society than it deserves. Religion has a word for people like me–blasphemer, a verdict almost worse than death itself. Every society needs a moral code. Do we need religion to define and impose it? My own moral code is rather simplistic–the Golden Rule: treat others as you would have them treat you. I understand that my views may make some of you very uncomfortable and I apologize for that. Really, in your gut, do you believe you are a abomination in God’s eyes? If yes, you have been brainwashed. To Superboy’s observation about religion and the military, I think some individuals are authoritarian by nature: they readily accept the authority of those above them be it God, preachers or their commanding officer. Also, in times of war, they live much closer to the possibility of death and must hope in an afterlife.
September 10, 2011 at 9:04 am
I think religions are just hipocritical organizations. They transmit values but they don’t practice these values. We must never forget that religions are created by human beings, and thus it’s subject to changes according to people’s own interests and benefits. The core meaning may be love, but I would rather say that God (whatever being it may refer to) is about love, religion is about power and corruption. Religions are like a business: the aim of the boss is getting more people to work for them with the only purpose of him becoming rich by taking advantage of other people’s faith. Unfortunately, many people nowadays stop believing in God because they take for granted that God is the same as religion, or church, or Pope, etc etc; but one thing is God and another quite different is religion.
September 10, 2011 at 9:04 am
maybe-just maybe the Vikings got it right-they honoured their Gods-Valhalla-and such-among others.they took strength-prospered-and ruled the world wherevever they made conquest.—-i left the Roman Catholic Church-because of its scandals-and their priests-who cant ever marry.i joined the Lutheran Church-ELCA-have been courted by Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod-a church in Roselle-Illinois.Missouri Synod church-beleives gays are intrinsically sinful-man by nature is sinful-i will stay in the Lutheran Church-ELCA-Evangelical Lutheran Church America.its progressive-liberal-will marry gays-we are Gods Children-God doesnt make mistakes.i also have a copy of the Koran-theres a Mosque-down the street from my house-actually Muslims practice luv and peace-its just that gays are despised-i respect their faith.but i shall stay a Lutheran-Martin Luther-got it right.The Pope-and Vatican-got it wrong.
September 10, 2011 at 11:56 am
Christopher, The Church was even more corrupt in Luther’s day than it is today. I am happy for you that you have found a home in the Lutheran Church ECLA. We share one common affinity but (sorry, Davey) have many different experiences. Go in loveand peace.
September 10, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Being both gay and a Christian, it only seems right to add my two cents into this.
Christ said that the greatest commandment was “love thy neighbor as thyself”. Christians and the Bible itself often get a bad rep for promoting hatred and intolerance. Chrisitianity is supposed to be about our walk with God as an individual, not the spiritual pissing contest it gets turned into. As somebody already pointed out, the problem is that humans are biased. If it’s not the kind of sex we’re into, it’s icky. So instead of looking at things from God’s perspective, they assume that since “God is a man” he must be as flawed as they are.
Leviticus and some of the other parts of the Old Testament are homophobic, but they also have rediculus rules and standards that we don’t follow. No sex but missionary position, if the bride wasn’t a virgin on the wedding day, you were supposed to kill her, if your kids wouldn’t behave, you were supposed to kill them, you couldn’t eat shellfish, couldn’t wear nylon, and the list goes on. The only “legitimate” homophobic passage is in Romans 1, and that’s because it’s taken out of context. Given the culture of that time, it had a different meaning than the word by word gay bashing people use it for.
The important thing to remember is that religion itself is not bad, it is the people in it who are the problem. It’s pretty much a historical fact that humans have problems setting aside their differences. You can be a Christian white surpremesist homophobe, or you can be a gay Christian who loves God and others. In the end people are going to do what they want, and they’ll twist their religion to justify themselves.
The other problem I see is that the infighting exists everywhere, not just in religions. Heck, sometimes I think we gays are more homophobic than some of the Bible thumpers I’ve been around. We place all of these rules and regulations on how a gay person must look and act. You can’t be effeminate, you can’t be old, you can’t be fat, and the list goes on. If you don’t fit the standard, you’re somehow a bad person. Last I checked, all that being gay means is we like penis, nothing more. We must set aside such petty differences if we wish to be treated equally and with respect. Why would people respect a group of people who don’t even respect each other?
September 11, 2011 at 4:00 am
@Jordan
You got it Jordan!! As I’ve said repeatedly in the comments of this and other posts:Whether it’s religion,government,or the community of sexual minorities,we all suffer from tribalism, factionalism,and exclusioniism. Where we stand most to gain from acceptance and unity,too many go for divisiveness and exclusion.
September 11, 2011 at 4:06 am
@Jordan
You got it Jordan!! As I’ve said repeatedly in the comments of this and other posts:Whether it’s religion,government,or the community of sexual minorities,we all suffer from tribalism, factionalism,and exclusionism. Where we stand most to gain from acceptance and unity,too many go for divisiveness and exclusion.
September 10, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Nice idea. Why not make a trip to the Arab world and preach that?
September 11, 2011 at 4:17 am
@Paul:
Whose/which idea is nice? About what should there be preaching to the Arab world,and who should be the “missionary”?___Just curious….
September 12, 2011 at 12:38 am
Nietzsche has a lot to say on specifically Christianity…
September 12, 2011 at 1:53 am
@Otter[bet you're fun in the water!]
Yes,that syphillitic old philosopher didn’t much like it,did he? When his friend Wagner,with whom he discussed the geath of God,and from whom he very probably got the idea of the
transcending superman,converted & wrote “Parsifal”,N cut him off .He called “Parsifal” Christianity re-arranged for Wagnerites.
I guess having no musical taste is unfortunate,but not a sin.
September 12, 2011 at 2:13 am
@Patrick Corrigan:
2 comments replying to your comments [one of them replying to one of my comments]___
Tried to send these yesterday,but had digital difficulties:
1] Yes,Brent Corrigan is cute,if you go for that Irish look [which I have,but in a very faded way.]
And:he has red pubic hair.
2] Re: Gay Popes_I imagine there were some.After all,throughout history we’ve always been everywhere___queers,I mean,not Popes. Don’t know whether you’ve seen Derrick Jarman’s film “Carravaggio”,but in one scene whoever the Pope at that time was,dressed as either a satyr or Satan,says to C,on meeting him:”I understand you’re one of the family/”
September 12, 2011 at 3:02 am
Well, yes, with a name like Corrigan, you could say I go for that “Irish look”, especially the red hair, pubic or not. And thanks for that comment on the possible gay pope. And there were popes who had children who then became pope. that was before the Reformation when there was much corruption in the Church then.
Thank you Guillermo
September 12, 2011 at 11:00 am
@ Patrick Corrigan:
Patrick,
Thanks for replying to my reply!
Yes,there’s the famous passage in Erasmus’ “In Praise of Folly” in which E. asks the Pope
[Julius II,I think_going on very long ago memory here ] why he racks up so much money from the sale of so many indulgences and by bscking so many wars.The Pope answers that he was obliged to accrue as much wealth as possible for his childrens’ inheritance.
September 12, 2011 at 2:34 pm
I think this type of a message resonates with so many of us in the gay community. I really suggest the documentary “Saint of 9/11″ which is about Father Mychal Judge, the first official casualty of the attacks ten years ago. His story really touched me as a gay ex-catholic. It didn’t send me running back to church or anything, but it helped me get over the hate I was holding inside for the catholic church. I think everyone should watch it. It’s on netflix, and I think it’s on LOGO too.
“Religion is for those who are avoiding hell, Spirituality is for those who have been there.”
-Fr. Mychal Judge
September 13, 2011 at 4:28 am
@Nick:
Thanks,Nick,
The story of Fr, Juge,and the quote from him are wonderful & really inspirng .
Otherwise,for the most part,the Catholic Church is really getting a drubbing here,isn’t it?
September 15, 2011 at 1:52 am
@ricardo:
ricardo,
Just got our comment,and I think it’s good__heartening to see so many people,religious & not religious making HUMAN & HUMANE statements.I hate to keep beating the same drum [that's a lie,because I love it and think it's a point worth making & re-making],but it seems to me that organized religions,for all of their virtues,are ,like so many human activities,opposite in practice from their original goals/purposes :exclusive,instead of inclusive_judgmental,instead of merciful/forgiving___fragmenting,or factionalizing,instead of unifying:everything seems to become political & tribal,even among those of us who’ve experienced disparagement/rejection.
As D.W. asks at the beginning of this blog/Where’s the love?
September 15, 2011 at 7:41 am
Think back to Christ’s time about 2000 years ago, the Jewish religion was very political simply to get acceptance by the Roman Empire, as well as religious. Some leaders emphasized the political such as King Herod while other individual church leaders leaned more towards the religious. Who nailed Jesus to the cross but the combination of the Roman Empire and Jewish political leaning leaders. JC was a scary guy to them. And by the above comment, I only mean that as the fragmentation of the church waiting on the savior. this is not a put down of the Jewish religion for many saw him as who their religion was waiting for – many who later became the original leaders of what became the Christian church. I know I’m being a bit simplistic here but I mean this only as an example of what you, Bill, were saying about organization and fragmentation. The love was right there in the persona of Jesus Christ, though many refused or failed to see.
September 15, 2011 at 1:01 pm
@Patrick Corrigan:
Yes,Patrick, [erg___just realized your initials are P.C. :that ,usually,well-intentioned,frequently annoying attitudiizing which affects {infects?} so much discourse in current & recent times].
As several people have pointed out in responding to this fruitful [no pun intended,but,one certainly hard to resist] post,too much of religion has been/is about politics and power,about labelling instead of faith & faith/love-driven activity.The Romans adopted the gods & worship of every people they conquered,not only because they were superstitious,but because they were shrewd politicians. Elizabeth I didn’t care what her subjects believed,so long as they professed allegiance to the Church of England.The French of the ancien regime did care,very much,what people believed,and because there were many Huguenots in Acadia,put up a very weak resistence to the British conquest of what became Nova Scotia.
In sum:historically politic has trumped love all too often.
September 21, 2011 at 7:29 pm
@everyone,especially Patrick:
I think Joseph Campbell got it right [unfortunately] when talking about the Vatican’s suppression of the Albigensians & similar “heretical” sects that it became a matter of Amor vs. Roma.
September 21, 2011 at 4:25 pm
hey Davey, your vids are beyond cool. I’m a gay Muslim myself. yes my religion or any other religion for that matter does not truly support Gayism, but i don’t see how that should matter in the end. its who you are and u shouldn’t let anyone define that. i personally love what we have in my religion, i may not be very religious but i certainly don’t feel like its bad in anyway, for me or my orientation.
So what i mean to say is, that its not so much the religion that preaches hate, its the people who preach the religion in a very wrong way. that’s why everything seems so messed up… but that’s just what i think…. it may not be correct after all.!
September 21, 2011 at 4:44 pm
@Adil:
You got it,Adil !! It’s not the religions per se,not [mostly] their creeds,but too many of their preachers & practitioners.As my father used to say (I’m sure the thought wasn’t his originally):For too many centuries,the Christian religion has focused on what’s between peoples’ legs.
September 21, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Amen,
September 21, 2011 at 7:35 pm
@Patrick Corrigan:
Amen again,Patrick! Still hope you resemble Brent of D.C. Fukit.
March 4, 2012 at 11:48 pm
I shake my head and ignore the religious who hate gays. The reason being I read my Bible and it says God created man in his image. Now if God created people I highly doubt he made a mistake when some of his created are born straight/gay/bi/trans whatever. I am a gay christian and I don’t back down or make apologies for bigots. Just remember Jesus was hated by the religious of his day also and religious does not mean you are a christian. It is a general term for someone who goes through the motions. And many people say they are christian and nothing could be farther from the truth. And Davy God loves me and you and everyone and to me the cross is a comfort not the property of ignorants. Have a great day.