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April 8, 2010
by Davey Wavey
93 Comments



talky blog: Does God Care that I’m Gay?

So, I think this is my favorite talky blog ever. I always say it, but I really love this one. Hopefully you have seen Lady Gaga’s Telephone video, otherwise it may seem especially bizarre. Click below to enjoy:

93 Comments

  1. Well Davy you sure stirred up the shit with this one. LOL Most of it I find pretty amusing but each to their own. Thanks, it’s been very entertaining to see how some people see the only right way is their way. Fundamental theism is really destroying the planet.

  2. John: I totally agree with much of what you’ve written. These people have been indoctrinated with this drivel over generations. We cannot and should not expect to change it quickly. The most important things we can do are to:

    A) live as examples of God’s unconditional love and understanding for all his children whether gay, str8, accepting, bigoted, Christian or otherwise. And;

    B) remain positive and keep light and peace in our hearts knowing that people can only get to us if we let them.

    Peace!

  3. I agree with much of what you say Jerry. But the God of the Bible is identified as “male” because most or all of the bible was written by men. Women were treated as subordinates or possessions at the time.

  4. To Davide,

    I am no supporter of early Greek thought or behavior, certainly not adult-child sex then or now (As to current Greek life or politics, we can leave that to another time).

    One thing modern people accept, apart from the actual sexual behavior itself, is that rape, child molestation, pedophilia by whom ever, sex between a teacher or professor and a student, a doctor and patients, a cop and the person the cop stops for speeding is an exercise of power (not authority)over another who is vulnerable.

    In many Greek societies male Citizens were equal. It wrong for two male CITIZENS to have sex with each other because they were citizens and equals (In most places even if they both willingly consented, it was still immoral).

    But in the social hierarchy of that time, Women and girls, adolescent boys, and slaves or servants were the Property of male citizens. They could whatever they wanted to to these social “inferiors” because they were “less human.”

    As Christianity moved out beyond its original Jewish roots into the Greek and Roman world, the understanding and expression of the “Christian Way.” underwent major changes (You can see this dynamic in the Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts and in the Epistles of St. Paul).

    I believe this Greek influence was good in many ways but the Church’s use of “natural law” rather than the Scriptures to deal with sexual issues was a horrible mistake. We should have stuck to Scripture and the Christian experience.

    Over all the Scriptures, especially the New Testament are very compassionate and freeing. There is hardly any Scripture scholar (Protestant, Catholic, Jewish or Secularist) who will say that the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) refer unambiguously to homosexual behavior as we understand it today. There is one rather clear statement in St. Paul which some say speaks directly against homosexuality as we understand it today.

    In the Gospels (which are the most central Part of the Bible, at least for Catholics), there is no mention at all about homosexuality or “men lying with men.” Jesus clearly condemns divorce, but not the woman (or the men) who do it. He offers forgiveness and compassion.

    My problem is why continue to use outmoded notions based on Greek philosophy to deal with these issues. This was my original point.

  5. Dave maybe some of us don’t want to change-Davide

  6. The bible came from the Church the Church did not come from the bible. It is your opinion how the early church dealt with the natural law vs scriputre, pure speculation and conjecture nothing more, for you to assume you knew better than the earlier church father’s in ny view is bias and silliness. You did not live in those times or was you present at any of the church councils. To say our faith or morals are solely based on Scriptire I view as grave error and sounds more like Protestantism than Catholicism. Take care..ciao Davide

  7. I agree that the Bible came from the Church (at least in defining what are the authentic books of the Bible) and not vice versa. (Remember the OT was written before the Church or even Jesus was born).

    I am sad that you said the other things you did. What I said was not “just” opinion and conjecture on my part.To say that was a pretty low blow. Do you reject all scholarly, historical, philosophical and scientific work and original documents, even that by approved Catholic scholars?

    I know you don’t like it when I cite my sources. You seem to think it’s just “academic crap.” It’s my way of showing that what I saw is not just “opinion” or “conjecture.”

    When I asked you where you got your ideas and facts that support your opinions, you just got ticked off at me.

    You may not, but I believe we are both true sons of the Church. I’d like to see us help end the “culture wars” through dialogue, not increase them through angry debate.

    PS. To be honest, I do remember you citing the Catholic Catechism a couple of times.

    PPS. Things do develop and change in the Catholic Church. At one time male masturbation was understood to be murder just as much as we, today, consider abortion, murder. Why?

    There was a period when everyone believed that the entire human being was contained completely in the male seed. (The woman’s body was ONLY a fit receptical in which the tiny human being given to her through intercourse could grow properly. Since the male sperm itself contained the whole new human being, for a guy to masturbate was actually murder. In my life time no church document, no pope, no Catholic theologian has every claimed that because we know from modern biology that a human baby come the union of the male sperm and female egg; that each alone has only a “part” that will make up the new human being.

    I don’t know if you have ever masturbated, but if you have I doubt seriously that as you did it, that you were committing murder. Speaking for myself, I am very happy that that teaching has not existed during my lifetime.

    Anyway Davide, I want us to be able to be brothers in the Faith. I hope I have not truly angered you.

  8. No friend not angry. You will forgive me if I have offended you. My friend I am a simple man not one bone in me is complex. I am who I appear to be. The point I was trying to make earlier was sometimes you come off knowing more how things should have been done than how they were done. And alot of it is opinion or conjecturing. Look at me I have many opinions and opinions are like assholes. And I can be the biggest asshole of them all. Another point is I try to live my life and faith in the simplest terms. If my faith bothers others than so be it. I do not care. If people choose to persecute me because I am catholic or a conservative catholic than so be it. I can not force them to stop. You think logical and are so deep in thought that I think “wow he really complicates things” I am not this way. Every little detail of the catholic faith I am not interested in. I have said too much, arrivederci, davide

  9. No. The question would prove redundant in a perfect world, which we are far from in the U.S. In the Chech Republic it’s pretty much a non issue, so our problem be what?

  10. And you didn’t live in those times either. Bias and silliness and grave error are tantamount to some one who arrogantly dismises another opinion as pure conjecture and speculation is a polite beating around the bush of calling someone an asshole with no real proof “real or imagined.” This over simplification of things makes a 110%(Typical U.S. dream accounting.) asshole, and those that smelt it dealt it. “The bible came from the Church the Church did not come from the bible.” Care to explain this doublespeak psycho babble? This shows someone who just wants to over simplify everything that he knows little about.It reminds me of The dude in “Good Will Hunting,” who just quoted stuff in textbooks, having no insight or opinion or even understanding let alone interpretation of the material. Next thing you will tell me you have a degree in Philosophy that is framed on display in the bathroom because you have to many other nebulous alcolades that aren’t worth the parchament its printed on. You are not worth getting out the dictionary because spell check is not available yet on my new computer until I figure out which browser has less issues than you.

  11. So let me get this “straight.” A boy of about fourteen sees me in the ocean and goes for it while I’m twice his age. I don’t reciprocrate and pretty much let him have his way, not denying his sexuality in the least. We were getting frisky and everyone smiled at our bonding moment. If someone actually knew what was going on under water, would I be prosecuted when he made all the advances? I have had this happen many times and on land as well, but this time I refused to push him away. Am I to understand that I’m to push him away like most of the others? The real crime is most would say push him away. I think that is a real travesty. I feel their pain probably more than they do and respect them for having more guts than I did at that age, or even now maybe.It’s tough when underage boys go after me, but it maybe in reality tougher on them.

  12. Very funny, you really sound like my religious education teacher =D

    greetz from Belgium Europe!

  13. I just read my birth certificate in it’s entirety recently. It had a space for my father’s ocupation and place of employment. There was no such space for my mother in 1954. She started working again shortly there after in 1960. And my sister and I were raised with a succesion of nanies. My mother always quizzed me about them and let them go frequently based on my answers. I’ve never really told anyone this but at age six I was quite uncomfortable with the fact that what I said frequently resulted in imediate dismisal. When my Aunt became one of the “victims,” it did not exactly enhance my take on adult life and I became more trusting of my friends rather than my parents.

  14. I agree and I AM an Atheist. And “earth religions” as opposed to earth’s religion is what stupid is, is what stupid does. Tree huggers, environmentalists and Green Peace, Sierra Club et all, you’ve been officially disowned by God. How do you like them apples, organic or not?

  15. I love it how they cherry pick. Makes me want to pop their cherry rough style.

  16. An old aquaintance told me, ” If god didn’t want man on man love than why did he give us prostrates?” I’ve always thought that was interesting especially considering I had a “straight” friend who allways wanted me to give it to him in the rear because mostly he really couldn’t get off much any other way.If they want me in a specific box I don’t have to think out of them I’ll just break them down and store them for future use, but now I don’t have room for them and they go in the recyclable trash. Fags or faggots go to hell maybe here, but in the U.K. they are cigarettes and the latter being something they pour milk over. God is this and that. Can’t say never met him. And I bet you think that if I don’t believe in him than you’re going to heaven and I’m not. Hate is not a family value. Isn’t it ironic that the same people who don’t believe in abortion “right to lifer’s” are the same people who believe in the death penalty yet don’t believe in people who wish to die ending their suffering fom a terminal condition? These people talk of school’s indoctrinating gay lifestyle as a scourge that needs to be dealt with more than the kids themselves need to know more about love than hate or violence. Seeing a man kiss a man or be naked is a travesty while pounding him to a bloody pulp and/or killing him is not.I’ve never met God but there are many that talk as they did and know what he wants better than any one else. These are likly people who get on their soap box and rant about how children should be raised with lies deceit and half truths when they never even had children themselves. I believe we are now the only counry in the world who invokes the death penalty for children. You bible beater right wing assholes know where to shove it.Your God is a mere whim, “subject to change without notice,” mine is love and God has nothing to do with it. So like the song “What”s love got to do with it?” Plenty when some people don’t believe that “Falling in love with love is playing the fool.”

  17. Slut grazie very kind words you have spoken to me. I was calling myself the biggest asshole of them all, but I have read your kind and gracious comment to me, now I am not so sure If I am the biggest asshole of them all

  18. I think you are so full of BS… The only underage boys that go after you are the ones in your mind. I certainly hope so, and adult man taking on the sexual advances of a child is perverted at the least, much prison time at the worst.

  19. Davide,

    If this conversation is to continue between us on this topic, we need to do it privately. I’ll say only a couple of words. First, you may not have as much formal education as I have and I have had more experience of the Church longer than you have. But I know one thing for sure you are NOT STUPID. You have great natural intelligence and ability. You know, some of the smartest people around often appear to be odd or weird and not fit in conventional boxes.

    Second, I can not agree with you that my words are “only opinions” and illustrate merely what “I wanted to happen” but really didn’t happen.

    You may posses a “simple faith.” That is fine and beautiful. I honor and respect you for it. And I am not out to attack you or your faith. I do hope I challenge you to look deeper into the Faith. One of the Church Fathers, defined theology as “Faith seeking understanding” I guess that’s where I am. I have a deep Faith and, because of the way God made me and with the talents/abilities he gave me, I crave to understand more and better. That does not mean that my way of living the faith is better or worse than yours. It just means we are different.

    Finally, I know that some attack you personally and attack the Church you love. Some of that criticism, I think, is legitimate, some is not legitimate and can be vicious. You know I have already defended you (although you do not need a defender. You are a “big boy” [a man] and you are smart.You can take care of yourself) and I will continue to stand with you.

    PS. I leave tomorrow morning (12th) for a six-hour drive to be with my sister and the rest of our family. My sister will have surgery for breast cancer Monday morning and she’s only 42. I will be back on the net Thursday (15th). Take care.

  20. Ok seb no need to discuss this further. I will pray for your sister and wish her a good recovery. Have a safe trip. Ciao, Davide

  21. So the Bible is an allegory that was written for specific people with specific morals, specific cultures, and a specific time period.

    Are the ten commandments (thou shall not lie, steal, kill, commit adultery, covet thy neighbor’s house, etc.) not relevant today ?

  22. I get the impression that you are a Catholic priest. Are you? I will remember your sister in prayer.

  23. That question is for Fr. Sebastian. Are you a Catholic Priest?

  24. NO, Gus, I’m NOT a Catholic priest. Never have been. I did go to the seminary for awhile and also studied at Notre Dame. I am a sociologist/social psychologist and one of my specialties the the sociology of religion.

    And believe me I do NOT speak for the Church. In fact, half the time (or more) my very dear friend Davide thinks I’m a heretic. Which I assure you I am not.

  25. Thanks. We also prayed for u tonight at Mass (and not for ur conversion. Haha).

  26. And thank you for the prayers for my sister.

  27. I thought for sure you were a priest. You evidently received some good theological education at Notre Dame; that must have been in the old days. Keep up the good reflections; I do not think you are a heretic. But, who am I to say! God love you!

  28. I like your point of view Joshyy.

    Interesting question. Does God care that I’m straight? Gay? Bi? Transgender? Male? Female? I think God cares about everything, but God isn’t human and I don’t think God holds a moral judgement about any of those lables WE use. God is the creator and creates out of love and what is intrinsic to Itself. Not male or female, not gay or straight.
    There’s something I like about Buddhism. They don’t talk about God because they realize what they’re really talking about is THEIR perception and thoughts about God, not God. That becomes obvious when we look at the tens of thousands of religious sects on this one beautiful planet.

    Not that we shouldn’t talk about God. But, out of all the beliefs, philosophies, religions and practices, no one really knows precisely and absolutely what the nature of God is.

    So, whatever works for each individual to bring them closer to inner peace, love, friendship, caring and kindness, and all those good things that are Godlike, is fine.

  29. Everyone anthropomorphizes God,even all the thousands of sects of Christians who tell us that their particular sect has the answers – the other sects aren’t quite as correct as WE are. Indeed, some are quite wrong. You might even go to hell if you are a member of the wrong Christian sect.

    You’ll never know which is the right Christian sect tho because they all disagree with the doctrine of all the others to some degree.

    No different from any other religion or belief system.

  30. >>Do I essentially return to what seems to me to be a dysfunctional home but still is home? Or do I remain who I am, yet not belong?

    Well, it’s very difficult to be that which you are not, it’s essentially a lie — and that causes a lot of stress.

    Stick around your old place for now perhaps but keep looking, I wouldn’t be surprised if you do eventually find a place where you can fit in and be who you are.

  31. It’s because the sin of men all the different sects of the Christian fath has nothing to do with God. And the Christian faith is nothing like the others. Only Christians believe Christ is God. To others he is either just a man, teacher, prophet and some even say he was a fraud.

  32. So let me try to understand what you’re saying… Do you want Christians to remain judgmental and hateful towards gays? This is what I want to see change.

    I love the Church. I am not terribly fond of some of the people who presume to speak on behalf of God by saying He hates fags.

  33. Not what I meant at all. You think many Christians have no brain and we are Indoctrinated. Hell dude I’m done with all this silliness, think as pleases you.

  34. This is beautifully smart and logical. The usual perception of God is most of the time personified in most Christian cultures, like in my country, the Philippines for example. But of course, God is way beyond that.

    God doesn’t give a sh*t if you’re gay, a criminal, or a stoner. He loves you. Point blank.

    This talky blog simply needs to be shared.
    Good job, Davey.

  35. So good, davey. Why should God care if we’re gay – it’s our way to “express yourself, don’t repress yourself” to quote Madonna for a while.

  36. I can’t beleive you skipped Britney Spears…

    Anyway, I think the whole freaky chick thing has to do with their individuality.
    Most of the “manly man” don’t seem to stand out in my opinion. (it’s also stereotyped that manly men are usually homophobic)

  37. oh…and glamor, somehow that’s in the hearts of most gay men

  38. im not sure you have really read the bible in right attitude to behonest..cause if you go back and read the scriptures, you will see that it was written, “for our culture, for our time error,” if the case was true that it wasn’t when you look at the new testoment then why do we celebrate christmas, why do we reflect on easter. and most importantly, jesus really would not be returning as He has promised he will. if what your saying is true, then your basically saying, “God does not exhist,” and if he doesnt exhist then may i ask why is the question about sexuality so important. basically it brings my whole point to saying, that you sound like a reletivist one who state, “i BELIEVE that there is no such thing as absolute……truth,” yet you just spoke on truth.”….so to answer the question..does god care…ABSOLUTLY he does. cause reacreated for a man and woman to be united as one. God never created, “homosexuality” it was us who designed it, and cause God knew that would happen that gives the reason for him to speak out about it in

    (old testoment)Leviticus 18:22: “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable..”

    Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

    (new testoment) Romans 1 discusses how the people gave into their lust. Yet the meaning of the acts described are debated. Some see the passages as describing prostitution while others see it as a clear condemnation on homosexual behavior.

    Romans 1:26-27 – “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”

  39. We celebrate Christmas because people like holidays, especially the kind that emphasize on loving and giving.
    The Bible is written by people, God didn’t create a magical pen that writes on its own.
    If it’s really that important for you to personify God, let’s just say he’s tired of watching men and women for hundreds of years, so he created something new (and more exciting, in my opinion). We don’t “design” homosexuality, God created it, get over it.

  40. Here we go again!! :( Remember that human beings (under God’s inspiration) wrote the NT and it was in the context of a particular culture and time.

    Yes, it applies to today, but we are responsible, under God’s grace to read the Scriptures in our own time. Remember, Christians used to accept slavery, and usury. In light of further knowledge of OUR discovering what was there all the time we changed.

    In the Bible there is no outright condemnation of homosexuality as we define & understand our reality today.

    Yes, there is a very negative suggestion toward profligate sex in the Christian tradition. But it applies to str8s too (str8 fornication).

    Your conservative fundamentalist interpretation is ONE attempt to understand it, but there are other authentic interpretations also.

  41. God loves you unconditionally no matter what. He cares about you, your life, the situations you are in, the problems you face, the things you’re excited about. :)

  42. I haven’t checked in here for a while because I thought it was getting boring, but the last few posts are good quality so I guess I’ll add you back to my daily bloglist :)

  43. In case you want to play games online, I may have the answer for you. The internet is a big database, think about that. For example you may try to search play games online. The main idea is to search lots of combinations of words, according to what you belive would be the game you want. In most cases you will find the ideal game online for you to play. Also look at talky blog: Does God Care that I’m Gay? | Break the Illusion Blog by Davey Wavey, which contains many important words.

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