Yesterday was one of the most amazing days of my life – but, alas, it is Thursday. And that means it’s time for another talky blog! I put together today’s talky blog before heading off to Hawaii – but tune in tomorrow for the latest on my adventures in paradise!
Enjoy!
October 27, 2011 at 3:01 pm
That’s hilarious! But imagine if it’s confusing now to find other gay bois, if straight boys kissing were an everyday thing. I would go crazy trying to figure people out ><
October 27, 2011 at 3:15 pm
How do you think Davey felt in the UK? He couldn’t tell ‘em apart… LoL
October 28, 2011 at 5:20 am
I think somehow you’d manage, Ste.
October 29, 2011 at 8:03 pm
Yes, but just imagine being able to kiss guys that you never would have kissed because they were straight?
October 27, 2011 at 3:04 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/tim-tebow-denver-bronco-gay-kiss_n_1028621.html
Tim Tebow does it! This actually isn’t the only case of he and his team mates being intimate with each other on the field either. If you look for it, you can find Tim’s team mates, and even coaches snuggle, kiss, and just all around love each other.
October 28, 2011 at 5:05 am
In moments of great elation, or great drunkeness, the taboo is broken and guys kiss and hug other guys. The affection is fraternal, not sexual, in most cases. It’s team spirit, the one allowable exception to the taboo. We are such a hung-up nation with our Puritan heritage.
October 27, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Bromance? Well one of my so called straight friend refused to share a bed claiming that straight men DO NOT share the same bed!!! Apparantly, he has had bad experience with…wait for it…5 different gay guys…WTF??? Now we know the core issue here!!! LMAO!!!
October 28, 2011 at 7:25 am
Come on, your friend has repressed tendencies. True straights have no compunction about sleeping in the same bed with another straight because they trust their instincts. I’ve slept with other straights and nothing happened because I respected their heterosexuality.
October 28, 2011 at 10:16 pm
@Prakash:
Prakash,
Joel is correct,COMPLETELY!
Not only do,in my experience, straight men mind sharing the bed with other straight men,or if they sometimes do,it’s because of discomfort about having enough room.
Joel is also right about respecting straight mens’ “difference”.Not all people,of whatever sexual proclivities,are immoral,dishonest,or disrespectful.[sadly some are all 3].To give a personal example:I am deeply in love with a man who is having great personal crises.Would I like to have sex with him?Of course!But he is not gay,and I would never dream of “coming 0n” to him.
I fear that,inadvertantly,you are re-inforsing stereotypes of gay men as predators,out to fu.k any man that moves.As Joel wrote,your “5-time” friend may be plagued with denial,something un-countable numbers of us have stuggled with.
Sorry,if I sound “preachy”,but frankly,I’m pissed.
October 29, 2011 at 7:56 am
@Guillermo3.
I think you missed Prakash’s point. It was a very funny post. It appears Prakash’s friend styles himself “gay bait.” Oh, the self-deception some are so prone to!
October 27, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Actually, I’ve kissed so many straight guys that as soon as I meet a gay guy that I like I have to stop myself. So I disagree, Davey, for once
October 27, 2011 at 4:59 pm
I was hoping you had some official Davey Wavey straight guys to make out in the video!
October 27, 2011 at 6:05 pm
It’s true, Ste :’) But sometimes straight boys kissing exist, at parties, or in school travel etc… semetimes friend admire them, if they are leaders.
October 28, 2011 at 5:17 am
The Italians can’t keep their hands off anybody, male or female, They are just very demonstrative people.
October 27, 2011 at 7:46 pm
Woohoo! My parents will be happy to know I’m straight for life!!! Who knew!? I can’t wait to hear how straight I am for scoring with another dude!!
October 27, 2011 at 9:56 pm
I remember the opening of “Kiss me, Guido.” They are going through the Italian quarter, guys are hugging and kissing (okay on the cheek). and it’s alright. The they get into the gay quarter with guys doing the same and it’s “Eeeeyou!” Girls can dance with other girls at weddings but NOT guys with guys. Well all of us guys danced with the groom at every wedding during the dollar dance so much so that the band leader once announced with embarassment, “The bride needs someone to dance with.” I think the deeper meaning is (I know there really isn’t one but what the “F”) If we were all free to show affection for each other think of the barrior that would vanish and the freedom! And the cases of
Mono but let’s not take it that far!
October 28, 2011 at 12:22 am
How good would that be if straight boys werent afraid to kiss men! I would have to quit my day job and just become a full time straight boy kisser
October 28, 2011 at 1:30 am
This title totally mislead me…
October 28, 2011 at 11:16 pm
@Voldemort:
Hi,Voldemort,
Long time,no hear!!
I agree that it was diapointing,but WTF?! Most straight guys aren’t great kissers anyway!
October 28, 2011 at 6:17 am
Hilarious moment Rove caught offguard and pashed by a member of Chaser when asked the question “Who would you turn gay for” a question he asks all his guests that come on.
This happened on “Live” television.
Can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjKD1n26OII
October 28, 2011 at 6:18 am
Pash is Australian slang for a Passionate Kiss!
October 29, 2011 at 1:24 am
I watched the video. What is it that makes you Aussies so rowdy?
October 29, 2011 at 2:40 am
@ Joel -
ROWDY? Whatever do you mean?
Could be we aren’t as pretentious as the rest of the world….. LOL.
October 29, 2011 at 7:18 am
Yes, Jason, that is absolutely true. The Aussies I have met have all been unpretentious and very approachable. Lot’s of fun to be with. We Americans think we are the free ones. Ha,Ha. That’s a joke. Our gay world is full of profilers, if you know what I mean.
October 29, 2011 at 8:25 am
P.S. The original inhabitants of America were righteous Puritans; the original inhabitants of Australia were rebellious prisoners of the English crown. Perhaps that is an explanation for the difference in character. Our puritannical heritage will dog us forever. Or so it seems.
October 29, 2011 at 10:38 pm
@ Joel
I guess an even bigger difference between our two countries is that the first European settlers to arrive in Australia came in chains, the product of an overcrowded British prison system. Some were sent here for merely stealing a loaf of bread while others were murderers. In short, England wasn’t very discerning about who they sent here. I believe it was very much an out of sight, out of mind deal for them.
The original European settlers to America went to escape religious persecution, I believe, but came of their own free will none-the-less.
October 28, 2011 at 6:30 am
I’ve been kissed by straights, I’ve been kissed by gays, and I’ve been kissed by bi-’s. It all happened years ago when I was in my young 20′s and living on a Navy ship, in close quarters, with other guys most of whom were in their late teens or early 20′s. The experience led me to believe that most guys are not totally hetero. Working and living together in close quarters, as many teammates do, it is not uncommon for some guys to develop strong affection for each other. In most cases, the attraction is brotherly; in some cases it is also sexual. I think that is the reason the services make homosexuality such a huge taboo: we can’t have these young kids with raging hormones kissing each other; it might lead to something more passionate. Bad for discipline and morale.
Now that Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell has been revoked and open service allowed, I don’t imagine it will change the services code of conduct, but it might make it more possible for guys to express their feelings for each other. Human touch is a deep, psychological need we all have. To live in a world where humans never touch is an unreal existence. Most humans will find a way around the taboo, however surreptiously. I know. I lived in that world for four years.
October 28, 2011 at 9:18 am
ive seen many a time str8 guys kissing-today-its no big deal.so there.
October 28, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Consider this: In our culture it is ok for women to kiss and even to be bi or lesbian because women don’t matter as much as men. Men are he superior creatures. So, when a woman acts like a man (i.e. kisses another woman, is good at sports, gets a power job,) it’s ok because she is taking on the masculine roles; but if a man does more of what we traditionally consider feminine (kiss a man, become an airline ‘stewardess,’ or a hairdresser, play with dolls, etc. etc., he is being a traitor to the masculine role and is despised. If a teen comes home from school and says “I’m on the football team,” dad is proud and brags to his buddies. But if a make teen comes home and proudly announces “I’m on the ballet team,” mum’s the word. And….if daughter comes home a member of the wrestling team, or tennis, or golf, or soccer….again, family pride. She’s more like a ‘guy’ and that’s ok. For a guy to give another guy a b******b, therefore, disgusting. Only inferior beings, such as women, are encouraged to perform such a disgusting act. But that’s ok because women are subservient and anyway what they do doesn’t matter. Why can’t a BJ (or kissing) between straight guys just be an act of friendship?
October 28, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Ooops….I forget the underlying message: I propose that homophobia is a by-product of sexism. If there were no sexism, there might be no homophobia!
October 28, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Women were able to acquire the roles you mention because they demanded equal opportunity with men as the goal of their liberation movement, especially in sports, employment and sexual relations. Is it now up to men to demand our own liberation?
Lesbians were a vital group in the women’s lib movement. Are we gays ready to join with our straight counterparts in demanding equal opportunity for men? Recent social studies find women on the ascendant in society, men on the descendant in terms of education, employment, and family income. Men should think about it. Women don’t even need us for procreation; they have sperm banks Those straight guys better wise up and join ranks with us–gay lib is men’s lib.
October 28, 2011 at 2:29 pm
As one of your dedicated straight male readers, I find your assertion that repressed homosexuality as the “only reason” for not kissing other straight guys to be problematic. I certainly acknowledge that repressed feelings of homosexual attraction are behind a lot of homophobic actions and attitudes in straight guys. However, I think ‘I don’t particularly want to kiss another guy’ is a perfectly valid reason not to kiss another guy. I don’t think anyone should have to kiss anyone they’re not attracted to, and I think it’s unfortunate that we have developed a culture in which straight girls feel the need to make out with each other for attention.
Summary: Perhaps I’m uptight or old-fashioned, but for me, kissing someone (on the mouth, at least) is an act of romantic love which I reserve exclusively for people to whom I am genuinely attracted, and I don’t appreciate the implication of not being ‘confident enough’ in my sexuality to kiss people I’m not attracted to.
October 28, 2011 at 2:50 pm
No one here should take issue with your stance, Matt. Two guys or two gals kissing to attract attention or shock others is not love. It’s theatrics.
October 28, 2011 at 9:01 pm
i would agree with what you say. i’m also a straight male blog reader of daveys and quite frankly i have no desire to kiss a man.
October 29, 2011 at 3:33 am
@Matt:
Good Lord,Matt! Don’t you kiss women socially,oon meeting/departing?If so,you can’t be attracted to all of them,if not,where are you from?Idaho?
BTW:It’s nice for you that you’re straight,but I seriously doubt that anyone here xares,one way or the other.
October 29, 2011 at 7:29 am
What I wonder is why any straight is a “dedicated” reader of BTI. Most of these posts only make sense in the context of the gay experience. Are we that fascinating to straights?
October 29, 2011 at 11:24 pm
@ Joel, (& Andrew & Matt also)
Some of the general “themes” expressed in Davey’s blogs are very universal and can easily be translated into anyone’s experience. Look at how many interpretations there are of the Bible, for example, you can use it to say almost anything you want.
My point is, is there any need to question why people participate in this blog? Isn’t there an overall goal is to create a greater understanding between all members of the community in the hope of us all living harmoniously together in the future with a view to ending descrimination etc? If so, then why not have “straights” take an interest in this blog and participate in any discussions taking place here.
I think the world would be a far happier place if we were all prepared to reach out and take the time to understand one another, and in doing so, learn to appreciate our differences. Not battle over who is right and who is wrong. I welcome Andrew’s contribution every bit as much as I welcome yours.
Andrew’s comments are not defamatory. If Andrew says he has no desire to kiss a man, then so be it. Of course, desire and showboating, as described in Davey’s talky blog, are two very different things. Joel, do you have any desire to kiss a woman? If not, does that suggest you have dormant Heterosexual tendencies you are trying to deny?
I believe Davey’s point is that if two girls are happy to kiss without being attracted (and people are accepting of that if not titilated), then it should be as accepting for men to do so also (without there being a sexual context). Difference is, no one is egging straight men on in the same way egg on straight women. (ie: By “egg” I mean encourage”). It’s about the clear double standard that exists. If 2 straight men enjoying seeing women kiss, there should be no problem in them doing likewise with one another.
As for the implication of dormant homosexual attraction as a reason for straight men not wanting to do this, it’s just an idea Davey was putting out there to see if it had wings. It is by no means is a statement of fact. It’s as if Davey were daring them to give it a try. Changes are those men will feel nothing. (Please see link to video I posted earlier for possible evidence of this). For men comfortable with their sexuality, kissing another man shouldn’t be a big deal. That was the point. This doesn’t mean they all have to go out and start trying it.
I found what Matt had to say to be very apt, and I quote… “Perhaps I’m uptight or old-fashioned, but for me, kissing someone (on the mouth, at least) is an act of romantic love which I reserve exclusively for people to whom I am genuinely attracted, and I don’t appreciate the implication of not being ‘confident enough’ in my sexuality to kiss people I’m not attracted to.”
I wish more people like Andrew & Matt took an interest in this blog after all. Are you suggesting we aren’t facinating people?
Thank you Andrew and Matt. We’re Davey Wavey blog buddies and we love you (too)!
October 30, 2011 at 2:13 am
@Jason
Yes, I think Davey was being provocative to stimulate conversation and he succeeded. I am still a bit curious, however. If the table were reversed, I think I should become quickly bored by the conversation of heterosexuals on the topics we discuss here. I have no disagreement with anything you have said. It does trouble me though that some comments here may be seen as highly inflammatory yet perhaps understandable given the rank rejection and discrimination some in our community have experienced. I am referring to excommunication and severe bullying, for example. In some, it develops a deep antipathy toward certain segments of society and their comments are emotionally loaded. I am old-fashioned myself and I am sometimes embarrassed by such outbursts.
October 30, 2011 at 10:01 pm
I’m a straight woman and I read this blog because it’s inspirational and Davey is HOT. One point that I think y’all are missing is that because American women’s sexuality is so culturally repressed, it doesn’t occur to anyone (even to ourselves) that straight women might find the idea of two men kissing attractive.
@Jason – No one encourages straight men to kiss because, I’ll say it again, women’s sexual desires are repressed/unacknowledged. My point is that many straight women would “egg” straight men on to kiss, if only more women were open with their sexuality and this culture were more tolerant of women as sexual beings. It’s no secret that a large percentage of Queer as Folk viewers were straight women. Think about it – hot girls kissing turns straight men on; why wouldn’t the reverse be true?
@Matt – I completely agree that kissing is an intimate thing and no one should be pressured to kiss someone they don’t want to kiss. I’ve kissed girls at bars because we knew it was hot for the guys around us, and I’ve kissed girls alone in dorm rooms because we were “exploring” our sexuality and genuinely attracted to one another. And now that I’m married I only kiss my husband because we’re monogamous. Being “old-fashioned” can be a good thing
October 31, 2011 at 4:37 am
Hi Sarah,
I too read this blog because I find it both informative and inspiration. It gives us the opportunity to share our experiences with each other and learn more about our world. The fact that Davey is “hot” may be prove a draw card, but I feel his looks are only a fragment of what make him so engaging. Of course, it doesn’t hurt.
The point you made about repressed female sexuality may be a little more universal than you give it credit for, especially in the western world. Though I’m no expert on the subject, because I’m male, if would appear that you have broken free of that repression at your own admission.
I can see how women would find men being intimate with one another (kissing) appealing. I used to watch Queer As Folk also and had a “straight”female friend who also enjoyed the program. While we both found the story lines very enjoyable, we also liked the show because it stood out when compared to some of the other TV dramas on air at the time, she wasn’t shy about wanting to turn certain characters for her own satisfaction / gratification.
Personally when it comes to same sex kissing between straight people, what’s good for the goose should be perfectly good for the gander and I believe I said as much in my post. Seriously though, isn’t it showboating, even when you’re participating of your own free will and not being “egged” on. You yourself that said you used to do it to get attention, it was only one of your reasons.
Do you get the feeling that though that men, “straight men”, may also be a little repressed themselves when it comes to sexuality. Not as repressed and in the same way as women, but repressed non the less. Think about it.
Meanwhile it’s a pleasure to meet another blog buddy. I did question one of the other blog buddies when they suggested that Davey’s blog was oriented toward gay people in the same post you responded too. You’re response has proved my point, that Davey’s blog is for everyone who wishes to participate.
I don’t think it’s old fashioned to only want to be with and desire your husband. I think it’s honourable and I wish you all the love in the world. He’s a very lucky man and you a lucky woman
Being in love, that’s the good thing!
October 31, 2011 at 7:27 am
Well, Jason, a few comments on your post. First, I suspect that straight girls kiss each other to turn guys on because it seemed to have originated with Xrated male porn. Doesn’t turn me on, but then I’m gay. Second, I am relatively new to social media and blogs. When I first came across Davey’s blog, I was somewhat shocked. It occurred to me that the conversations were the sort of coversations gay guys had with friends in private, not public. Now here we are with our gay chitchat discussing things like foreskin pro and con in a venue for all the world to read. Third, it is fine for you, as an adult, to say let’s all share our experiences. I am concerned about the 8th graders who log in. Do they, who probably have not had sex with another, become prematurely jaded? There is much “jade” in gay culture. For most of my life, I have been very conscious about tailoring my dialogue to my audience. The problem here is that I do not know who that audience is–gay, straight, male, female, young, old, participant, or voyeur. It will take some getting used to for me and I have considered pulling my punches in consideration of others. That would make for some bland comments, I’m afraid. This is a brave, new world we are in. By the way, I watched all episodes of Queer as Folk, got really engaged with the characters and their lives, and enjoyed it very much. Who was your favorite guy?
October 31, 2011 at 3:13 pm
@Joel – I read Davey’s blog because it has a lot of positive messages that are applicable to everyday life, and because I’m a fairly active Ally in the never-ending battle for equal rights for the LGBT community.
@Guillermo – I don’t kiss women socially when meeting or parting, no. I don’t find anything wrong with the idea, it’s just not part of my normal mode of social interaction. Your mileage may vary.
@Jason – Thank you for your response, and the warm greetings! Your comment embodies much of the sort of positive energy that I enjoy about many of the things Davey posts.
@Sarah – You’re definitely right about the desires of women not being taken into account (and often actively repressed) in our society. Hey, if it makes you happy to make guys happy by kissing other girls, by all means go for it. To any straight guys who felt that kissing other guys for the enjoyment of the straight ladies nearby would be worthwhile, I say again: go for it! I just don’t think that straight men who DON’T feel like that would be a worthwhile experience should be pressured to do it anyway.
October 31, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Hi Jason,
Thanks so much for your lovely response. I love connecting with other blog buddies
I actually found this blog from Davey’s fitness blog which I found from an internet search about a type of exercise. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond.
I think you made some good points about straight men’s sexuality being repressed, and I completely agree. There are so many ways in which masculinity is much more restrictive for men than femininity is for women. Women can wear pants and skirts, but men only pants. Many parents feel that a unisex name is “strong” and “cute” on a little girl, but “wussy” on a boy; it’s pretty common knowledge that once a name “goes to the girls” parents are hesitant to use it for their boys. How many American males named Evelyn, Chelsea, or Meredith do you know? Women are outpacing men in college entrance and graduation rates, etc. Straight men feeling uncomfortable kissing one another, whether they’re “exploring” or being “egged on” by women, is part of this wider problem of the restrictions on masculinity.
I think Joel makes a good point which actually connects to what I was saying: “I suspect that straight girls kiss each other to turn guys on because it seemed to have originated with Xrated male porn”. Exactly, and it’s because we don’t conceptualize women as sexual beings (who might actually watch porn, oh my stars!) that there aren’t accepted or pervasive cultural notions of what might be sexual attractive for (some/many/not all) women. We expect straight men to be overtly sexual beings, so American culture is accepting/tolerant of things that are turn-ons for (many) of them – namely hot girls kissing.
Thanks Jason for your good wishes! I too wish you the best
And Justin was my favorite Queer As Folk character.
October 31, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@Sarah
Hi. I found your response to Jason quite interesting. In one episode of MadMen, the female consultant that the agency hired said that the key to an effective ad was knowing the difference between what people desire and what they think is expected of them. In a previous post, I mentioned the women’s liberation movement and how women have used it to break down the barriers to women dictated by society’s expectations. In your post above you say that society does not accept women’s sexual desires as a norm. I thought we had gotten beyond that. Let me ask you, do you consider Playgirl magazine, the Vagina Monologues and frequent talk in the public media about vibrators as a means of sexual pleasure for women other than accepted norms? And what about that cable tv show Girls Behaving Badly? I should expect that had wide public appeal, especially to men. I accept your premise that many men are still hung up on the desire/expectation trap. I don’t know if I’m ready to wear a skirt. Maybe a kilt. Thanks for your comments.
October 31, 2011 at 5:09 pm
@Matt.
I apologize if my previous statement implied that I did not think straights should participate on this blog. I have been a supporter of women’s lib from day one so why should I expect anything different from you with respect to the fight for LGBT equality? At least now I will know that when I respond to you, I am not responding to another gay male who shares certain common assumptions based upon our experience.
November 1, 2011 at 1:54 am
Hi Joel,
I think there is a difference between society accepting women’s sexual desires as normal and expecting women to be overtly sexual beings in the way that society expects it of men. As to your examples, I don’t think the Vagina Monologues have wide traction outside of college campuses, and I don’t think that vibrators or Playgirl are fodder for public discussion to the extent that examples of men’s sexuality (hot girls kissing, the main example at hand) are. I’m not trying to argue that we’re stuck in the stone age or anything, but if you ever doubt that most American women aren’t still trapped in the virgin-whore dichotomy just talk to a teenage girl (b/c I get that you can’t be one
My main point is that, in my opinion, straight boys don’t kiss because they’re never egged on by women to kiss in the way that straight girls are egged on to kiss by straight men. Moreover, it’s a culturally accepted notion that straight men like it when hot girls kiss; yet the reverse isn’t true. I was simply interrogating the myriad complicated reasons why this is the case.
November 1, 2011 at 5:32 am
@ Joel – This is the first blog I’ve participated in and social media has only been part of my life in the past 3, going on 4, years.
When I talked about sharing experiences I meant life experiences, not sexual ones. I imagine there are other blogs for that.
@ Matt – I hope we crossed paths again.
@ Sarah – I am happy to make you acquaintence. I found Davey’s blog after investigating YouTube. In response to names, the name “Kim” has been associated with men in this country. Our current American ambassador (I’m from Australia) is a man named Kim Beazley. Fair call, there aren’t too many young boys or men around called “Kim” but I just thought I’d mention it. Pornography is all about men. Made by men for men and men only. I believe that the female equivilent is “Erotica” and is more “romance” based than “hard core” action. But, who needs such things when they have love in their life?
@ Sarah & Joel – I own all seasons of Queer As Folk on DVD. I’m told the American version is better than it’s British namesake. I identified most with the characters of Michael and Justin, so I guess they are my favourites. Of course, Debbie was a hoot wasn’t she? With regard to porn, there was a study conducted recently here, (I heard about this on the radio), in Australia that found young men who watch porn experienced lack luster sexual performance and are starting to believe that this is the norm. It mentioned something about the impact it has on the dopamine levels in the brain being adversely affected. Enough porn talk, yeah!
October 28, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@Jason:
Jason,did you know that CAMP is also Australian?It is[or was?] a police abbreviation for:Criminally Active Male Prostitute.
October 29, 2011 at 12:49 am
@ bill(Guillermo3)
I did not know that, but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s true!
October 28, 2011 at 4:16 pm
@Joel:
Joel,Great comments as always:When will we[EVERYONE,but especially we Americans] learn that we are human animals,and that human animals DO/WANT TO/NEED TO TOUCH?! In Philly,Italian-Americans say/believe:You don’t pass flesh without touching it.
October 28, 2011 at 9:38 pm
My straight son kisses me on the lips (not a lover’s kiss). There came a time when I worried about what others might think, especially his friends, so I turned my head for a kiss on the cheek. He wasn’t ready to accept that, explaining that everybody kisses on the cheek these days, including total strangers. Since I was the most important man in his life, a kiss on the cheek was just not good enough to express his affection for me. I didn’t argue the point.
October 28, 2011 at 11:18 pm
@Bill:
Good,Bill_Sometimes one shouldn’t argue.
October 29, 2011 at 12:58 am
Like the song. “I kissed a boy and I liked it. Got all the honeys in the club excited. I know it’s wrong, but I don’t mind.”
October 29, 2011 at 3:39 am
@Jason:
Jason,re:your reply to Joel on “rowdy”:Obviosly you can’t be as pretentios as the rest of the world__Most of you are Irish.
October 29, 2011 at 6:09 am
@ bill(Guillermo3)
Actually…..
Ancestry of Australian population
In the 2006 Australian Census residents were asked to describe their ancestry, in which up to two could be nominated. Proportionate to the Australian resident population, the most commonly nominated ancestries were:[15]
Australian (37.13%)
English (31.65%)
Irish (9.08%)
Scottish (7.56%)
Italian (4.29%)
German (4.09%)
Chinese (3.37%)
Greek (1.84%)
Dutch (1.56%)
Indian (1.18%)
Lebanese (0.92%)
Vietnamese (0.87%)
Armenian (0.82%)
New Zealander (0.81%)
Filipino (0.81%)
Maltese (0.77%)
Croatian (0.59%)
Australian Aboriginal (0.58%)
Welsh (0.57%)
French (0.5%)
Serbian (0.48%)
Māori (0.47%)
Spanish (0.42%)
Macedonian (0.42%)
South African (0.4%)
Sinhalese (0.37%)
Hungarian (0.3%)
Russian (0.3%)
Turkish (0.3%)
American (0.28%)
At the 2006 Census 455,026 people (or 2.3% of the total Australian population) reported they were of Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander origin.
October 29, 2011 at 7:34 am
@Jason. Guillermo3 was just “peacocking” his vast historical knowledge, as usual. He was probably referring to the original settlers of Australia when it was an English penal colony. I almost typed “penis colony,” That would have been a slip, but not an inaccurate description. What say you?
October 29, 2011 at 10:48 pm
@ Joel
As I’ve posted above regarding the difference in the culture of our nations. The British weren’t terribly discerning about who they sent here.
In Bill’s defence, one of Australia’s earliest outlaws (“bushrangers”), though also considered a folk hero, Ned Kelly, was of Irish decent. He is kind of our equivilent to Jesse James, and revered because he rebellious. Trying googling him.
By the way, many people snicker at the term “Penal Colony”. As most of the convicts first sent to Australia were men, though there were many women, one could argue that is was something of a Penis colony, probably the first deliberate sausage fest even…. LOL.
October 29, 2011 at 8:09 am
BTW, guys. I kiss my dogs every day. What does that make me? BTW, they kiss me back.
October 29, 2011 at 1:58 pm
@Joel:
Joel,I guess that makes you dirty,dog-kissing pervert:Dommage!
October 29, 2011 at 8:38 pm
@Joel:
Hate to say it,Joel.but Doggie style aside,you are historically incorrect:The first permanent English settlers[after failed attempts,notably the Lost Colony of Albemarle] were in Virginia,1607,many years before those Yankee Massachusetts immigrants.Virginians were C.of E.The first colony to have complete religious freedom,as designated in its charter,written by John Locke,was Carolina,which had C of E,Puritans,Catholics,the first Jews,Huguenots,and,God help us Scots Presbyterians.Charleston was founded in 1670,10 years before Philadelphia.Reform Judaism was established there & in Savannah in the very early 19th century.
October 29, 2011 at 10:50 pm
@ Joel – they boy has some pretty feathers… LOL.
October 30, 2011 at 2:37 am
Yes, Guillermo, but would you deny that puritanism and the puritan work ethic have not had an undue influence on American social mores and character? If so, then you are in disagreement with the author of my college textbook on American art history. He was probably a Yankee, I am aware of the early Virgina settlements of the 17th century, having lived in Norfolk a number of years and having visited many of the historical sites. I did not know that Carolina was the first colony to have complete religious freedom. Thanks for that. I often think of early New York city as the most nonreligious settlement in the New World. It was so predominantly mercantile in its being. It still is, come to think of it.
October 30, 2011 at 2:04 am
@Jason:
Several comments/questions,Jason,in,no order,but as as I think of them:
1):It’s been asked before,but your comment thanking/welcoming Matt &Andrew came to my e-mail as addressed to Joel & amp,so and so & amp,etc.,etc., & amp.Tell me,please,what does “amp” mean?
Is it internet-ese for et als? Hunh?
2)In your comment to Joel following my lecture on the first English settlements,you wrote:”@Joel:
They boy has some pretty feathers…LOL” What does “They”mean?Is it Australian,or just a typo?
3)You mention,in one of your posts that the earliest Europeans[actually,that would be the earlest English) settlers in N.America came to escape religious persecution:Some did,though as I tried to say in my long historical correction addressed to Joel,the earliest [Virginians],did not,They came for economic opportunity,to find gold[which they didn't find],and many in both VA & Carolina were the non-inheriting sons of British noblemen.
4)In my long,perhaps boring lecture on religious freedom in Carolina,I forgot to include Lutherans,mostly German&Swiss.
5):Thanks for your defense of me re:the Irish in Australia!However,I’m bill(Guillermo3).Bill is another “blog buddy”.
6):Thanks for your population/ancestry figures.I correct,I suppose that means Australians are
un-pretentious multicultural rowdies.I must admit to being somewhat skeptical,since if 37% of the population claims Australian ancestry,but only a little over$% are Aboriginals.
To close,I can’t resist repeating a bad “Irish” joke:Did you hear about the q.er Irishman?He loved women more than whiskey
Enough ethnic insult for now,Jason!
Love,
bill(Guillermo3)
October 30, 2011 at 2:46 am
@Guillermo3
Wait a minute! It is you who liberally use the expression “&” in your posts, much to my consternation. If you remember, I asked you what you meant by it some time back. This is the pot calling the kettle black. You are very prickly on the subject of the subsidiary role the South has played in American history. As one who has some Irish ancestors, may I say I am prickly about some of your Irish jokes? We gave up drink a few years back.
October 30, 2011 at 5:25 am
@ bill(Guillermo3)
1. & = and (simply short hand);
2. “They” was a typo, I noticed it after posting and couldn’t retrieve the post to fix it. Please exclude the “y”;
3. I’m no expert on American history, don’t claim to be and am happy to stand corrected;
4. Lutherans and Germans an afterthought, interesting, thanks for adding that detail;
5. The “Bill” to which I was referring was indeed you “bill(Guillermo3)”;
6. I felt this spoke to you the case you were making, so thanks for the thanks. I just felt it was an interesting fact to share;
7. Indeed a bad Irish joke but most of them are, aren’t they. LOL.
Take care,
Jason.
October 30, 2011 at 2:31 am
@Jason:
Jason,
In my long,multi-numbered previous post to you,I forgot to mention 2-3 things: The sending of Britain’s excess prisoners Down Under,was like a horrific realization of Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”.
As I’m sure you know emigration to Australia for many economically distressed 19th century Britons,was seen as a necessity.Hence the famous Pre-Raphalite painting {Maddox-Brown?] :”The Last of England”.Have you read Robert Hughes’ book on the settling of Australia?GRIM.
One of my ancestral states,Georgia,was settled as a refuge for the huge number of inmates in British debtor’s prisons.
Enough history for this early Sunday morning!
bill(Guillermo3)
October 30, 2011 at 2:54 am
@Guillermo3 and Jason &
When I joined this website, I had no idea I would be re-learning so much world history. It’s been a fun ride. I’m glad this conversation occurs in the wee hours of the morning (CST) so as not to bore those less interested.
October 30, 2011 at 5:27 am
@ bill(Guillermo3)
Sunday afternoon my time, and no I haven’t read any of those books nor have I anything by those authors. Are they fiction?
October 30, 2011 at 5:38 am
@ Joel – Sunday afternoon when you posted, evening when I responded! My time.
October 30, 2011 at 3:41 am
@Joel:
Damn it to Hell!I just finished a long response to you,Joel,and that bitsh,Ms.Clear crashed whe I tried to post it!! Eh bien,encore:
1):I do not frequently,or ever,use the term “amp” in my posts.However,in the recent pst,several “blog buddies”__in quotes because that term annoys me__have asked the meaning of “amp”.
2):I certainly don’t deny the influence,and I agree,a pernicious one,in American culture.Nevertheless,I think it is wise to be a bit skeptical of things one was taught in school.Example:A colleague of mine was taught at Temple U. that heroin was invented for,used by Hitler,and that the drug is called heroin,because he called it his heroin,or hero.First of all,the German word for hero is held,as in heldentenor.2nd:A quick googling of heroin revealed that it was invented in the late 19th century by those wonderful folks at I. Farben.They also invented Bayer Aspirin and the gas for the chambers at Aushwitz.
3)The “Irish question”:I’m part Irish myself_thought everyone was_or as they say in South Philly:It’s a sin.As for giving up drinking,if you mean me,YES_perhaps for yourself also.As for the Irish nation:I very seriously doubt it.
October 30, 2011 at 5:37 am
@ bill(Guillermo3) On St. Patrick’s day, everyone’s a bit Irish (if not more).
As for Heroine, I thought that was derived from the opium poppy which is native to asia if I’m not mistaken. If Hitler were using the stuff, it still doens’t explain his actions but maybe his delusions.
By The Way: What’s a bitsh? Is the latin root word for something? And as for the term “Whe”…. is this some esoteric scholarly attempt to exercise your superior, well versed, interlect? LOL (2 can play at this game blog buddy). LOL….
October 30, 2011 at 10:52 am
@Jason
Guillermo3 often misspells words that otherwise would not pass muster with Davey’s censor. I wish the censor would delete “&” every time that appears. We had our first blast of winter weather yesterday, especially in the Northeast where Guilermo lives. Many are without electric power this morning. And you Down Under preparing for summer. Fire up the barbie as Bill fires up his woodstove to keep warm.
Best regards
Joel
October 30, 2011 at 2:14 pm
@Jason:,@Joel:
Joel& Jason,
Geez,guys!!_I can’t type,or spell well at any hour,but 4:30 AM,edt,doesn’t help!!A bitsh,is simply a bitch.Joel should know,’cause he kisses them [Might be a new blog post for D.W.:Gay guys kissing straight{one assumes} bitches.]BTW:Is interlect Australian for something,or just a mis-spelling of a wishful thinking,i.e.:Australian intellect?!!
“A Modest Proposal” was Jonathan Swift’s [Swift was Irish,a great writer,and a coprophiliac] devastating satire on how the British should deal with the Irish.Bottom line?Eat them.
Robert Hughes was[is?] an art critic & writer on art.He was,it beggars the imagination, a really perceptive art critic for “Time” magazine.He wrote a hilarious satirical poem on the art & real estate scene in 80′s New York anonymously,styling himself the “antipodean shepherd”.
Hughes history on the brutal forced settlement of Australia [can't remember the title] is devastating.
Jason,Thanks for your efforts,but still don’t know what “amp” means,as it seems to always be written “& amp”.
October 31, 2011 at 2:31 am
@ bill(Guillermo3) – The “ampesand” symbol is used in place of the word “and”. – I don’t know why you are getting a double up. Thanks for the additional info and your reading habits. The misspelling of intellect was a test. I had trouble getting my response to your post up and was frustrated at having to reestablish my internet connection, refresh the page and post again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampersand
@ Joel – How’s this for irony. We are at the beginning of storm season and lost power last night due to a late night thunder storm ourselves. Thankfully power was restored by this morning. I’m not familar with ice and snow, but can see who is clearly worse off.
October 31, 2011 at 2:55 am
After looking at Davey’s Hawaii shots, I’d rather be in Australia just now.
October 31, 2011 at 4:42 am
@ Joel – Really? Why? Would you prefer to experience the outback rather than the rainforest. We do have rainforests, beaches etc. Do you not like Hawaii? I’ve never been.
October 31, 2011 at 6:56 am
Jason, you might say I live in America’s equivalent of the outback. Far West Texas, where I live, is part of the Chihuahua desert except that we are high desert. Where I live is 4500 ft. above sea level. It is very arid with little rainfall. Some call this area of Texas “the last frontier.” For most of my life I have lived within an hour’s drive of the ocean on one coast or the other. I miss the sea. I looked at Davey’s photo from his snorkeling adventure and loved the clear waters that one finds near the equator. In my travels, I have been to the Galapago Islands and seen all its rare wildlife. Hawaii looks very appealing to me and I imagine the Great Barrier Reef of Australia to be similar. You are fortunate to live in such a diverse place, although I wouldn’t want to be there during the wildfires. We had a lot of wildfires here in Texas this spring and fall. It was terrible and many lost their homes.
October 31, 2011 at 7:01 am
Jason, Forgot to answer your question. Yes, I like Hawaii very much. I have been to Honolulu. Waikiki to be exact. It is very urban, unlike the place Davey is on the big island. I was there in the month of November and found most exhilarating the constant breezes off the ocean. They made me feel vital and alive. I did not get to tour much as it was a business trip. In all, it was a memorable experience.
November 1, 2011 at 4:57 am
@ Joel – Then avoid Australia during the Summer! Cyclones and Bushfires. We also have lost of poisonous things too! You sure you want to come here? I feel most fortunate, thank you!
November 1, 2011 at 5:15 am
@Jason,
If the truth be known, I’ve seen some stuff on t.v. about the gay scene in Sydney and also a gay movie or two from Australia on netflix. I guess that adds to the allure of the Down Under. Are you inside Sydney today? Bad joke, I apologize.
October 31, 2011 at 6:13 pm
@Sarah
As you claim to be a sexually liberated female not immune to hardcore porn, I recommend to you an article on today’s Alternet.org website titled “Make love, not porn.” The article also has a link to the make love, not porn website. The article discusses the role hardcore porn is having on the sexual performance of both men and women in today’s liberated society. Take a look. See what you think. It may be an eye opener.
November 1, 2011 at 2:18 am
Hi Joel,
Let me first clarify by saying that I never claimed to be “a sexually liberated female not immune to hardcore porn.” I was referring to the notion that many people don’t believe that women would actually watch porn. But why would we anyway? In the Alternet.org article about the “Make Love Not Porn” campaign, Gallop says that 99.9% of porn is made by men, for men. That really just adds to the stuff I was saying above.
An sexual exploitation is NOT sexual liberation.
November 1, 2011 at 3:13 am
@Jason:
Jason,I always thought it was “ampersand”,but I’m probably wrong,as I often read wrongly_not to the point,I guess,but as a kid I thought school reading books were either wrong,or affected[Wouldn't have known,or understood that word at age 7,of course]because they didn’t read the way I talked:have to instead of “hafta”,for example.
Anyway,I think my slow mind has finally understood the & amp thing:Have noticed that in my e-mail address book,”s around an entry have both the “and the word quote.I think & amp is similar:both the & and the word amp:ah! the wonders of the digital age!!
BTW,Jason,I hope you will read the Robert Hughes book on Australia_grim,but incredibly informative.
Best,
bill(Guillermo3)
November 1, 2011 at 3:46 am
@Sarah
Hi. I’m really stuck on this one, perhaps owing to my own limited experience with pornography (never has appealed to me) or the whole male/female sexual interchange. Your statement that hot girls kissing is an example of men’s sexuality dumbfounds me. I should say that hot girls kissing is an example of girls trying to live up to the expectations of men to whom they are attracted and, therefore, of the exploitation of girls. The whole point of the alternet article, I thought, was that men are so engaged with hardcore pornography that they cannot get off without the images they see there. And that women are so motivated to appeal to the expections of men that they act in a pornographic way in the presence of men and in sexual intercourse with men.
I come to this issue not as an academic study, but from my own perception of what I see in society. Many girls/women dress in sexually suggestive ways and most men, excepting gay men, do not. I wish they did; it would make life much more interesting for me. Also, I thought that if I, Joel, know about the Vagina Monologues (I’ve seen it on t.v.) and women’s discussion of vibrators’ use for sexual pleasure, then the whole issue of women’s sexual desire must be a socially accepted norm. I also thought that one of the demands of the women’s liberation movement was that women be seen as sexual beings and not merely as sexual objects for the gratification of men. If that is the case, why do women/girls present themselves as sex objects for men? I would answer that women/girls have not been truly liberated. Perhaps you would say that is the fault of society’s normal expectation. I would say it results from the overemphasis of pornography in our culture.
In sum, I suspect that we are in agreement here but have different ways of verbalizing our opinions. In any case, I think pornography is a poor substitution for real sex both for men and for women. Again, thanks for engaging me on this issue. I may have much to learn.
November 1, 2011 at 12:49 pm
@Joel,
Hi. First off let me say that this is a really interesting discussion, so thanks to you too for engaging; I agree that we’re in general agreement and are just coming from different perspectives and experiences.
Hot girls kissing – is that an example of men’s sexuality/desires or an example of, as you say, “girls trying to live up to the expectations of men to whom they are attracted and, therefore, of the exploitation of girls”? I would say that, depending on the context and the individuals, probably a little bit of both. I think it’s a bit fruitless to try to dissect why different people find different things attractive. If (many) straight men find hot girls kissing to be attractive, whether that’s a result of an inherently sexist phenomena or not, that doesn’t delegitimize it for many men. It does, however, become a problem if a man is unable to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with his female partner becuase of his unrealistic expectations due to watching porn (as the Alternet article suggests is happening). I don’t watch male/female porn and neither does my husband, so I cannot comment on that.
Why do women dress in sexually provocative ways? This could be discussed for eons! I personally used to dress provocatively as a teenager (for a lot of reasons that I won’t go into here) and as I grew spiritually and morally I began to dress more modestly. Having made that transition I can say without a doubt that American culture does not promote let alone really accept/respect modesty in women. Just look at any women’s clothing rack in a random department store – good luck finding an evening gown with sleeves or a jean skirt that’s below the knee. Look at the demonization of the (modest) way many Muslim, Orthodox Jewish, and FLDS women dress. And yes, I think it’s all wrapped up in men’s expectations and an “overemphasis of pornography in our culture.”
I personally don’t believe that women’s liberation lies in becoming sexually agressive or gaining equality by becoming the same as men; I’m actually kind of a “difference feminist”, go figure!
November 1, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Sarah, Thanks so much for your reply. Personally, I am not turned on by pornographic display nor do I disrespect women who dress conservatively, but then I’m not your normal heterosexual male. If all you say is true, then we are in sad shape as a society. I think we’ve exhausted this subject. You have given me some new perspectives to consider, so thanks.
November 18, 2011 at 8:29 am
yes-ive seen str8 boys kissing-thats hott.and a good embrace as well.this generation feels comfortable with that.we all are truly blessed.not just a fist pump-an embrace and kiss.
February 16, 2012 at 4:22 pm
davey how can i get laid