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July 24, 2008
by Davey Wavey
254 Comments



Why do gay men love straight boys?

It’s a question as old as time itself: Why do many gay men idolize straight guys?

I’ve heard many people suggest a simple answer: people want what they can’t have. I don’t buy it. There are a lot of things that I can’t have and don’t want. (A house on the moon immediately comes to mind. Or a vagina of my own.) If it was as simple as wanting what you can’t have, many more straight women would swoon over gay male sex.

I think the true answer is much deeper, and much more personal.

And if you don’t believe me that many gay men idolize straight guys, do a search for gay porn featuring “straight” boys. The proof is in the… ahhh… pudding.

First, let me say that I am among those gay men that are enamored by straight guys. Tom Brady, for example, makes me weak in the knees. Sigh. I’m not preaching from a high horse; instead, I’m sharing my experience and insight.

So, here is my theory:

If you hate an aspect of yourself, you’ll hate that aspect in other people. This is why many of the most homophobic bullies are actually gay themselves. The most outspoken critics of gay rights or homosexuality, be it in the class room as a child or the pulpit as an adult, often are harboring feelings of attraction toward the same sex. They hate their own gayness, and thus hate it in others. Just look at Republican Larry Craig, any number of homophobic evangelists and the bullies from your school experience. Gay, gay and gay.

I think many gay men hate their femininity. We’re picked on because of our femininity as a child. Our parents tease us or tell us it’s wrong; we’re taught to hide or repress it. As we grow older, those same standards are reinforced by gay culture; femininity is rarely seen as an attractive trait in the gay male world. How often have you heard someone say, “I’m so attracted to him because he’s so feminine.” It doesn’t happen.

So, as we hate our own femininity, we hate that same femininity in men. On the flip side, we love masculinity. Enter Tom Brady. What is more masculine than a straight guy?

In conclusion, I believe that many gay men, myself included, idolize straight men because of our own internalized homophobia. Our infatuation comes from a place of self-hate.

As we learn to love and embrace all aspects of our identity, including our femininity (no small feat, indeed), I suspect the idolization of straight men will melt away.

PS Today I’m grateful for the 3rd rainy jog home from the gym in a row, computer repair shops, chocolate yogurt bread, Scotty Dynamo and uncertainty.

254 Comments

  1. I am the perfect gay. I respect everyone but I really couldn’t fall for an effeminate man. I try my best to conceal my feminity though and it comes shining through a little lol. I love muscular/masculine/fit guys. The slightest fat and treating your body negatively is a turn off for me. I watch hair, hands, toenails, smell, breath…everything…clothes (clean or not) I am very picky, I might die a virgin lol

  2. i do fall in love with gay men all the time and i have had sexual encounter since time begun with gay men… all my life. and i have a very open and social gay life, wonderful gay friends and sex is not a problem at all!! :) the problem about this straight friend is that i truly love him and i fancy him so badly the idea of him in front of me already gets me horny! isnt this crazy? he does have the most amazing crouch mind you… what captured me from him it is his sweetness and his sensitivity towards me. i found friendship with straight guys ( i have lots) incredibly charming friendship…he knows, i know…he knows i love him and i like him, he doesnt let me say it so it doesnt get embarassing.. he doesnt mind all this, he knows and he likes it. otherwise why would he keep seeing me and allowing me to tell him he is gorgeous and kiss his cheeks with my lips? i hold his hands and i kiss him all the time on the =hands and cheek. it s very sweet. i look at him and i completely love him, he knows it and he just like the way it is. but it is a bit of a torture. i dream about him and i wake up thinking of him. i started havign sex with gay men, and i think about him!!!! crazy. maybe you are right..i may have other issue not to do with gay sexuality…. i just love the connection and the type of force he spread. but i do also love gay men, i just havent found one yet to replace him. it is strange, beautiful and insane. i think i should talk to him more clearly about my sexual fantasies… or try to touch him more clearly there?? but taking our friendship into account, actions like this seems just vulgar. our love is platonic, but i am gay and i actually physically want to love him. which is cruel. and maybe he will freak out and leave me but at least i have been sincere? i did tell him i love him in any sort of way already..he is always very smart to avoid an answer and always brings the conversation about himself. i dont mind that. anyway. the truth is that i woudl love agay men to love me back and i woudl love to find someone to love just liek i love my straight friend…or even more… until that comes…i live in between innuendo, dreams, illusions, fantasies and a very handsome straight mate to chat to and to hold on with.

    • Gosh, it’s impossible to really say without knowing either one of you, but it does sounds like he is getting an amazing amount of ego-boosting and flattery from you, and who wouldn’t want that?! I’m sure he values you as a friend and may love you in a platonic way, but it also sounds like he is using you for his own satisfaction. But maybe not, maybe he is totally sincere. Think about it, if the situation were reversed: If you had a female friend that you liked or even loved, but you were not IN love with them, and you knew they were utterly head-over-heels in love/lust with you, what would you do? Would you behave as your friend does? Or would you try to cool things off so as not to hurt them? Or so as to avoid the awkwardness of a one-sided relationship?

      I have certainly been head over heels for someone who did not return the feeling, and they normally pull away. It’s seems odd that he is almost encouraging you. Maybe it’s time to talk about it!

    • I can remember having an intense love for a dark haired and fairly dark complected boy in high school.
      We became fast friends…although he was straight. We went camping together one night…and in the middle of the night…I made a play for him…and he let me have his body. It was great sex…but it never happened again. We remained friends and did things together…but never again did he allow me to have sex with him. He was killed in the military during Viet Nam…and I felt such sorrow. I loved him…and he liked me…but it was not enough to bring us together more than once.

      Nigel Biggerstaff

  3. i do fall in love with gay men and i have had sexual encounter since time begun with gay men… all my life. and i have a very open and social gay life, wonderful gay friends and sex is not a problem at all!! :) the problem about this straight friend is that i truly love him and i fancy him so badly the idea of him in front of me already gets me horny! isnt this crazy? he does have the most amazing crouch mind you… what captured me from him it is his sweetness and his sensitivity towards me. i found friendship with straight guys ( i have lots) incredibly charming friendship…he knows, i know…he knows i love him and i like him, he doesnt let me say it so it doesnt get embarassing.. he doesnt mind all this, he knows and he likes it. otherwise why would he keep seeing me and allowing me to tell him he is gorgeous and kiss his cheeks with my lips? i hold his hands and i kiss him all the time on the =hands and cheek. it s very sweet. i look at him and i completely love him, he knows it and he just like the way it is. but it is a bit of a torture. i dream about him and i wake up thinking of him. i started havign sex with gay men, and i think about him!!!! crazy. maybe you are right..i may have other issue not to do with gay sexuality…. i just love the connection and the type of force he spread. but i do also love gay men, i just havent found one yet to replace him. it is strange, beautiful and insane. i think i should talk to him more clearly about my sexual fantasies… or try to touch him more clearly there?? but taking our friendship into account, actions like this seems just vulgar. our love is platonic, but i am gay and i actually physically want to love him. which is cruel. and maybe he will freak out and leave me but at least i have been sincere? i did tell him i love him in any sort of way already..he is always very smart to avoid an answer and always brings the conversation about himself. i dont mind that. anyway. the truth is that i woudl love a gay men to love me back and i woudl love to find someone to love just like i love my straight friend…or even more… until that comes…i live in between innuendo, dreams, illusions, fantasies and a very handsome straight mate to chat to and to hold on with.

  4. @ anonimous : you are kind of right. he is getting the biggest ego-boosting ever. of course, he is an alpha male, and he wants to be the centre of the universe! and in his world, he is. lol he does use me for his own gratification sometimes. but it is me who wants to be used sometimes, because he is a man i love. but he is always talking about himself and his problems (he cheated on his wife and he had an affair and he is going through the shittiest times of his life) i was always there to help him and listen to him. that is why i didnt want to make things worst for him by talking about ALSO my problems..he has plenty of regret, sadness, madness and family problems right now to deal with. but actually he never gave me any timeframe whatsoever to listen to me and my feelings. so this is not good, actually. i think he woudlnt know how to handle it. there is too much on his plate and cannot handle it. I wrote to him beautiful love letters… he replies very gently about himself or dont reply at all. he is a proper man…very alpha male. but i think we should sit down and talk about me.. in the end of the day we are good friends for 8 years… why spoil it now? but then again, why dont i just cool off myself without embarassing him? It is complicated. he does things to me that really drive me crazy about him. he always comes say hi to me, he is always devoted to our friendship. he is so cute, sweet and tender with me. why spoil it? but if im having all these emotions about him, it is probably best to talk… the problem is that he will not make up time for me at all. he is so busy at work and with his wife torturing him and controlling him..his life has become pretty horrible and this of course makes him very nervous, sad and pissed off. he doesnt have time for me but if we are such friends, he should. straight, gay, who cares..we are two humans connected at some beautiful levels, but every now and then one must talk and express fears, problems and move on.

    • Disclaimer: I do not know you so the words I am about to express may or may not be justified with anything else other than my own self-expression of your stories.

      Stef, I truly feel sad for you and even pity you. Your actions are, at least to a part of me, a representation of a disgusting and inane kind of desparity and an indication of your own self-hatred. That said, you are also very honest and I admire that honesty for not many would say the things that you do in your posts. I know I have felt what you have and conceded in playing a submissive shadow-role to another person who I loved but did not love me the same way. Perhaps I still do so it may be hypocritical of me to say the things I do to you; however, I still can’t help but to find disgust in your actions towards yourself. You are being selfish to yourself and robbing yourself of true love, happiness, and joy.

      For one who talks about himself constantly and panders on about his own issues without acknowledging or caring to hear about another is not one suited for any person. No human being should be treated less than what they are worth– even if they accept being “used sometimes” for the sake of satisifying their own foolish desires of attachment. It would be one thing if this was a family member who had to use you in order to survive but this is not the case. He does not /need/ you to survive. Your relationship is parasitic in nature even if you do get a “high” off of him sucking the life, energy, and resources from you.

      You’re obsessed in his life without seemingly sharing a thing about yourself. It doesn’t matter how “proper” he acts. True respect and chivalry comes from treating others with kindness and sincerity– but of which he lacks. I believe you just don’t truly love yourself to feel like you deserve someone so great. You rather keep yourself fixated in a tentalizing relation, one in which you play out the fantasy of cat and mouse.

      “We are good friends for 8 years…why spoil it now?” Because you aren’t being honest with yourself, Stef. You say foolish and inconsiderate things. It seems you’re addicted to him more than anything else. You desire him and crave him like a drug and it may have nothing to do with the fact he’s straight– just that you can’t have what is immediate and gratifying. You seem satisfied with having cake but never eating it.

      You go on about his issues without acknowledging your own. From your post, I can hardly call your “connection” beautiful. You don’t play a role in a relationship. You only fulfill a role or standard. That’s hardly beautiful. You’re sabotaging yourself and it doesn’t seem like you really care. That’s sad, disgusting, and pitiful.

      Don’t hold onto people who only make you options in their lives Stef. I hate to see others treat themselves with such disrespect. You are more valuable than any stupid egocentric straight man. His appearance should be irrelevant to you. The world of dreams, fantasies, and illusions are not worlds which any person should stay long in (and most certainly should not sacrifice reality for).

      If they cannot love you, you cannot love them for you will only dance yourself into oblivion thinking they will get up any second to dance with you. They will not. Forget it and just move on forward with life and yourself.

    • I was thinking about a boyfriend I had a number of years ago…I was head-over-heels in love. He seemed to love me, at least at first. It took me too long to realize that he was not really able to love me, but was using me to sustain his ego. I finally got out of that relationship, but looking back on it, I feel really embarrassed that I wasted so much of my life and energy in it. Makes me kind of cringe, actually. I have seen him on occasion and he still seems to want my approval, but I really keep my distance now. I was desperate for his love, and really made a fool out of myself in the process. I also think I was somewhat blinded by lust and hormones. That part of my life really messed up some of my other relationships, sadly. But what’s done is done. I hope I won’t make that kind of mistake again.

      One person can never really give another person advice. We always do what we want to do, in the end. But I wonder what it would be like if you withdrew yourself from this guy, and moved on with your own life…if he really cares about you, he will chase after you. If not, then that tells you what the friendship really means to him. But even if he does chase after you, you still have to judge whether it is genuine, or just because he is missing the ego-boost that you give him. That’s what I feel about my ex, that his need for my approval/attention has nothing to do with love or any kind of mutuality. So I don’t pay much attention to it anymore.

      Eight years is a long time. It sounds to me like your relationship with this guy, as beautiful as it feels to you, is really stopping you from being fully alive, in a way.

    • well, now we have two people commenting on your story! Hope you don’t get us confused. I think the new guy is making some valid points, but try to keep us separate – I haven’t used words like “disgusting” etc in my posts.

  5. the truth, both of you, is even more sad. cause during this last 5 months – while i was madly in love with this straight guy, who i adore, who i fancy like crazy… i met a gay men that i really fell for. and i was so happy to fall in love with a GAY guy. i invited him to stay over my house, i shared my bed with him, i offered him all my energy help and he became part of my house, met my friends and so on. i have been happy by being connected to him like i was never before. I was so happy that i was sharing things with a gay man and that i found a gay men to be affectionate to in the same way or even more then i was to my straight friend. but this time, it was a gay men! so i really thought i managed to find a person that i could connect more ‘naturally’ because we were both gay! and this person got me more then the straight guy did. the straight guy simply remained a good firend (very handsome, but at least i had my mind and heart somehwere else) so i though i was winning and getting out of it. trouble is that sexually we didnt really get on. i considered this superflous for some time, thinking that by working it out, we could have got somewhere sexually… with time and patience. but it didnt work for him at all. he tought that there could never be a relationship between us because we couldnt work out sex. I hadnt had no other sexual desire whatsoever since i was having him in my house. (we did very little sex, good, but only twice! – but we were very close and always cuddling each other) i realised, even without too much sex, that I was in love with him, i became calm, i felt happiness and i felt so good. all my friends told me they never see me happy as this time. anyway, then i realised he was not being honest with me (the guy had no money, didnt have a job, didnt have a room to live in, stayed in hostels and I was just trying to help him out) the guy had an agenda in his back of his mind since day one. he was just playing a part. when i finally realised he didnt love me but was only playing the part of a ‘pet’ (like himself told me) to stay free in my flat… i started cutting him off and left the house. trouble is that we argued and he ended up offending me, insulting me and disrespecting everything i did for him and saying horrible things to me and my friends. he was such a terrible, energy sucking impostor, double faced, cunning, truculent, childish and devious, vicious evil man with no social manners so … my heart got seriously broken by this gay guy. i let him into my life and he simply took everything and left me, discarded me and spitted on me. i was left heartbroken, was crying my heart out every single day and im still trying to recover. the straight guy helped me out, so did all my friends.
    The love and affection i felt for this gay guy was different then what i feel for the straight one. but all in all what this all means is that i am at point in my life where im seriously thinking what the hell is wrong with me. part of what I read in ANON post is true… even though to say im disgusting is pretty silly, cause all im doing is to love. but im falling in love with the wrong guys. that is not disgusting. it is sad, disillusioning, and i keep away from my true happiness. but this year i tried to find true happiness and i was betrayed by an impostor. a gay guy who used my feelings, led me on and then just disappeared. Now im left alone. my heart is broken. a gay guy destroyed my self esteem, my wishes and my dreams. im still trying to move on. then i go to work and i see my straight friend and i completely want to kiss him, touch him, and the whole thing sometimes is making me frustrated…cause i want what i cannot have.
    i am not really in a good place, guys.
    I am so sad, disconnected from anyone and i feel so alone. i have plenty of sex and i have many friends and i do well at work. but i am so alone deep inside of me. i tried to love someone (two guys) and it was all a big stupid mistake that most of all i made up. i made up things in my mind that hurt myself.
    I need to grow out of this situation. i need to move on from the straight guy…without arguing or without leaving any hard feelings…because he will obviously understand that unfortunately we cannot really be ‘friends’ because i am in love with him and i need to move on (unless he wants to have sex with me!!! LOL) – but i also need to find a gay man that can love me back and fill my heart back again with love. i want to feel that connection that only two gay men can have… a mutual connection. however, i have this massive issues. and im very sad right now. i have been 38 years alone and single. i never had a full relationship more then 3 months. even if i want to give love and love is the only thing that really completes me. god gave me so much love inside of me..but i have noone to give it to. (im talking like morrissey!!LOL) will i ever find love? at what age? will I stop falling in love with straight guys and torture my soul and fool my heart? will i stop giving my heart and energy to dishonest, truculent and vicious gay man?
    I dont know.
    Thanks Anon… you have been very harsh in some words (disgusting??? come on!!! LOL) but most of your words are true and i will read your post again…. like you were a psycologist, and analysit or something. i really need to look down inside of me and find the way to be really happy and truly in love.
    to Anonymous: you are also very helpful to me. to answer one of your question…if i withdrew from him, he will come say hi to me and chase me. because he genuiely love me like a true friend… he cannot love me as a gay men..but our mutual friendship is true and deep. ego boosting or not doesnt matter… he is a sweet and tender friend… i love listening to him, i love letting him talk and smile and saying things..the guy has a skill in talking and he is so cute. i just love listening to him, but he did listen to me at times! i swear guys! I a just not so good at talking about myself and i keep things to myself. but i just have to stop wanting him too much because it is me that is making him up into something that he is not. so it is not really his fault… he hasnt changed his behaviour towards me since day one. I have fallen in love with him in the last two years (yes, before I had no idea I would fall for him… i didnt even fancy him for 5 years!!!!) it just happened 2 years ago after he started to tell me all his problems and i found a sensitive side of him and i started really falling in love for this cute person with such a heart. but that heart is not for me. never will. anon is right.

    I somehow need to find a way out of this. in the meantime….
    THANK YOU both of you.
    thank you very much.
    I need to be told harsh words..I need to be told what people think…and obviously the truth hurts sometimes.

  6. by the way… listen to this…. almost everyday i kiss my straight friend on his cheek with my lips…. sometimes i kiss him on his neck with my lips.
    i almost always kiss his hands with my lips. everyday. I always, as soon as i see him, reach for his hands with mine and he gives his hands back to me and we hold them together briefly.
    Sometimes (if we r close and talking) i put my hand on his thigh briefly – he never pulls away or freak out. but just stay calm. Otherwise i always caress his shoulders and i squeeze his cheeks with my fingers.
    Sometimes i squeeze his ears with my fingers.
    I put often my hands on his neck and cheek when we say goodbyes.
    Before going home (after work day) we ALWAYS meet up to say goodbye… and that implies hugging, kissing on his cheek and kiss his hands. every single day.
    We do this many times during day especially when there are no people around
    (if there are people around he gets nervous and pulls away immediatley – sometimes abruptly)
    Last night we said goodbye while he was in his car and i was outside… we were alone.
    I kissed his hands from the window so many times while he was talking.
    i briefly looked down his crouch (i do it often now…he obviously understands it – because i noticed he has a huge beast im sure down there!)
    and he touched slightly his own thigh closer to his croch with his hands then looked at me with some kind of intensity. this happened before.
    Sometimes I also put my hands on his stomach and give him a caress..
    in all this he never freak out, never run away or shout at me…. he just pulls away after few seconds…
    is him just ego boosting again? by giving away little accepting things towards me but never actually go down the full thing????
    i asked him is he would ever had se with a gay men… he said he understand why some straight men get to that point in certain situations…
    (we were talking about the movie Shame… where a straight guy, sex addict, has sex with millions of girls..then in the pinnacle of his debauchery he has his cock sucked by a gay men….)
    and he always tell me he is in touch with his ‘gay’ sides… obviously by hanging around with me for years!!
    he always tell me he doesnt give a damn of people around us talking about us (because we are ALWAYS together and always by ourselves).
    People asked his friends if we are an item! and he doesnt give a damn, he finds it charming.
    what do you make of it?
    sorry… just torturing myself once again!

    • Dear Stef01,

      I am sorry to hear that your heart was shattered to pieces by this said vampire. They are commonplace these days, I hear. Parasitic relationships are never pleasant but by you keeping yourself wrapped around (willingly I might add) this straight man’s finger is repeating the same sins of the past. Your ex did you wrong by selling you short and exploiting you for your resources. But you are the only one doing yourself wrong by leading yourself astray by being magnetized by this co-worker of yours.

      “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” This quote couldn’t be any more relevant to you and your situation than ever before. You are fooling yourself but what I find interesting is you acknowledge it. You know you are selling yourself short and even admit you don’t even really mind– that’s alarming to me but also disgusting.

      Let me explain what is disgusting to both you and the other one, “Anonymous.” I am not calling ~you~ nor your “love” disgusting but rather your choices and actions for yourself. It is -not- silly I use this word but I will agree it -is- harsh. Why do I use this word instead of ones such as “sad, disillusoning, negligent”? Because they don’t properly service the kind of gross negligence you foster for yourself. You do yourself no justice by bringing yourself to such deplorable standards. Loving one who does not love you is one thing. Sucking the life force of your heart and depriving yourself of true and genuine happiness is another. You are, in certain parts, recreating the same kind of destructive forces that left you shaking by your ex. In the situation with your straight man, you are being pulled by your heart even though you /know/ it’s no good for you. You know it will only serve to hurt you and bring you down yet what do you do? You follow like a lost and broken soul desperately clinging to him.

      Let me tell you something about ‘love’. It’s not love if both sides don’t feel it. You’re not ‘in love’ with this guy because he’s not ‘in love’ with you. For love to exist, it needs to be reciprocated. The same principle of communication applies here too. Otherwise you’re just infatuated with the ideas or desires you have for the said dude. You are just feeling the waves of infatuation take place. You worship the ground which he treks. You write love letters to him and keep your head far too high in the clouds for your own good. You dream of dreary things that may seem very pleasant and rewarding to you in some parts but completely tear away at the seams of your heart and soul.

      Your “straight man” is nothing more than Soma.

      You need to taper away at your bonds and realize, again, your illusions and fantasies of your attachments with him are not fully felt. If he loves you and respects you for who you are and what you are as a human being, he doesn’t need to lead you by your nose for that is not what lovers do. He is not your lover and the excuses you make, anticipating and reading deeply between his actions, are evident of that. Your life is not a giant soap opera. It also is not a romance novel. Your life is your life. You need to live it for yourself rather than renting it.

      Is that the case for you? I don’t really believe that is the case.

      I can understand you are not in a good place but that’s precisely why you should seek help, therapy, and counseling rather than allowing yourself to slowly find yourself worshipping yet another ungrateful soul who cannot reciprocate your love and attention on equal terms. You haven’t learned to let go. You haven’t learned of closure yet. You still struggle and are trying to make a rebound with a guy who has no desire to be with you.

      You are setting yourself up for failure and marching into it proudly, from what it seems in certain parts of your writing.

      It’s not enough to understand the situation and learn from your mistakes logically. You must be able to absorb your loses and grow from them in all facets and angles: psychologically, physically, emotionally, logically, and spiritually. You have not finished your time of grievance. It seems like you’re still limping and are using the straight man as a crutch to keep yourself afloat. I say to hell with that damned crutch. Toss it out and find your own path back home, to yourself, and to harmony again.

      I can say I too know the struggles of contempating a future where love seems absent or uncertain. I feel remorse and sadness knowing that it’s possible I may never have someone to love, hold, and give it my all. I too have been betrayed. I too have been used and abused. I too have been broken and sometimes was the culprit behind those injustices.

      In conclusion, treasure what you have and save it for someone who does warrant its acquisition. Save it for the recepient who gives back in the same way you do. Never make someone else a priority in your life when you’re just an option in theirs.

  7. Dear Anon,
    I fully understand your use of the word ‘disgusting’ – thanks for clarifying… and it is fitting under your explanation. you are right and you are good at telling me this in those terms.
    I agree with you completely. but I am not setting up for failure. I am living in failure. i failed myself and I betrayed my heart, my soul and my spirit and there is noone else to blame.
    I am fooling myself once again and the realisation of it (which I did anyway personally but it doesnt sink in) is making me feel so desperate, lonely, confused.
    At this age…if I am encountering such emotional problems, it means that I have a lot to learn to discover the road to happiness.
    I let gay men -vampires- to get into my life and suck my blood out me. And im letting carry this perverse mental game on with my straight friend.
    I am ruining the friendship, not him. This is nothing to do with him being straight or to do with him being an egocentric, this is so unfair. but the image I created of him inside my head is completely my fabrication and it is wrong. It is all my fault.
    I don’t believe in counselling or therapy…it is just a waste of money
    You may have realised that I myself understand logically what is going on.. I always did. but my mind is obscured by my heart and my lust and my desires.
    im a grounded, professional and sane person, with a house, family and friends around. i live my life comfortably and i have a nice creative job. however, im destroying my heart, which is the most important, because of my behaviour. and i am not happy. I am falling into the same trap again..and you ll not be surprised if i told you that i went through hell only 5 years ago because i fell for another straight guy..it all ended terribly embarassingly bad. a nightmare. that is why this time the whole thing is making me so worry about myself. i thought i had moved on..but i fall into my mistakes again. what can i do? you fall in love with people but you dont really know why, but you can work on it. and i must do.
    i like your concept of not being an ‘option’ to somebody’else life. i never thought about it before..you are very specific and right. i think you really hit a nerve in me with that concept. which is something i knew..but when you hear it saying from somebody else it makes a bigger impact in my brain.
    You are also right telling that it is like im sick and he is my drug. I am addicted to him like a drug.
    My mind is blind to reality and instead im floating in the sky. Im hurting myself by doing this and it is ONLY my fault. Not his. all very true words that make me feel pretty sad for what i have turned myself into. i am far away from true happiness. im completely lost, broken and disillusioned. because i love the wrong guy and i make it beliveable to myself and i choose this low standard of emotion. rather then going for what can really make me happy. one reason could be that in life you do what you have to do. and things happen because you want them to..so could it be that this love, however sick, disillusioned and false is, it is all the love i could ever get from life? this is my biggest fear.
    those small kisses, that feeling of being connected ever so slightly to this guy…is probably everything i can ever get out of love in this world. do i sound cynic? stupid? yes i do. so you are also right telling me that i have problem of self esteem as im appeasing myself to low standard of emotions and human connections..when infact true love is something completely different. but i sometimes tell to myself : i will never find true love…so situations like these, loving a straight guy, are at least a small taste of it! silly i know. disgusting, actually.
    in the end of the day, taking away all this drama of my mind and heart, this guy is such a wonderful human being… he is so sweet cool and very funny…im happy to be around such people. im very proud of myself to have such friend around. trust me, he is a unique, amazing man. if you knew him, you would probably understand me. but dont worry..im not finding excuses..as this is causing me too much pain and i need to put brakes on and move on. because we are not talkign about him anymore, but me..and i am a mess and i need to wke up and move on and grow out of all this and learn the lesson.
    Trust me, I am suffering emotionally, physically, mentally and psychologically and spiritually.
    I cry every day and I ask myself what the fuck am I made of to end up like this. im seriously burn out.
    I am not happy, Anon. My smiles are fake. I am very unhappy and sad because not only I don’t love anyone and noone loves me (as partner should do) but i hurt myself and my spirit and my heart with these impossible wishes, illusions, man that cannot get and even gay ‘vampires’.
    not a very good year at all. but going down means only that i can go high now.
    i just want to add that a gay man and a straight man can def love each other and be friends in a special way..but when one starts feeling too much and fantasisying..then everything gets very messy and one must be careful. i wasnt. i didnt guard my heart. i let myself burning out. i let myself falling into oblivion, fantasies and i am not happy at all anymore so everything a good friendship could give me, now has given space to pain suffering and psychological torture.
    Let me add that you write very well and are very good in your phrasing and words.
    what do you actually do? you sound very good in what you write and how you write it. i really like the way you write. you are better then any analyst or psychologist or therapist ever!!!!
    Not to mention that what you describe is so true, honest and very intelligently put.
    You have understood the situation perfectly, albeit what you don’t know is that there is a soft side to the whole thing. we are truly good friends, really. i just turned everything too bad and extreme for myself. and it is my fault. but i will never forget him. I will never hate him. I will always love him forever for the rest of my life. it is a true genuine and beautiful love. he is my mentor, my guide, my partner at work and my inspiration. we are united in a cosmic way…for 8 years.
    but not in a physical way. this was just my mistake : to turn thing nasty and complicated for myself.
    that is what i meant when i said ‘why spoil this friendship now?’ but you are right.. i am not being honest with myself.
    right now I am a mess because i messed it up myself. and must move on and I need such harsh or very honest words.
    By the way I am making myself naked in this posts, you realise I need help. and i hope you realise i appreciate everything you say and the time you spending writing such good words for me.
    there is hope in human nature!!!!
    Thanks

    btw what is Soma?
    xxxx

    I just want to add that it is not all that bad. I do believe that a gay man and a straight friend can platonically love each other..as me and my friend do.
    But one must know where is the limit of our projections and desires…If we start fancy, reading between the actions, innuendos, hoping for something more,

  8. Dear Anon,
    last night i saw the gay guy i dealt with (the vampire)… we ignored each other and didnt even say hi (after having spent 4 months together… unbeliveable) but what was surprising was that i felt so detached from him… in my heart it is as if i almost never met him. it was like looking at a ghost in a movie, a person from the distant past. he cut a lonely, sad and crooked figure.
    it is sad that two humans who got together for so long now they dont even say hi to each other. is pretty vulgar but that’s because this is the best to do for both. this are the things he created around himself because of his behaviour. it is better to be that cut off then anything else. even my friends (who knew him) ignored him completely. we left him as we found him : alone and lost in his twisted sad world.
    anyway, i really feel that at least THAT problem is solved. i managed to experience closure definetly with this guy, i think, so i guess one part of my route to some kind of peace of mind and progress has happened. now i need to solve myself with the straight guy.
    I thought i write this. i feel this blog became my secret diary!
    x

    • Dear Stef,
      I don’t think one quite fails in life until they completely give up and do not move on forward. That’s why you’re setting yourself up for failure rather than failing completely. Even if the latter is true, it doesn’t mean it’s irrevocable. You always have the choice to do something about the problems that visit you in life. You can suffer and do nothing or you can suffer and try to change things.

      I think there is no age stamp when it comes to personal growth and learning. I’ve seen, more often than not, adults struggling with these kinds of emotional issues. Some can advance well into their senior ages and never learn how to manage their feelings. Therefore, matters of the heart are not fixed magically when you become an adult. That’s one of the problems here within America, I feel: people mistakenly assume that your childhood problems or your teenage angst suddenly vanishes and you encounter completely new problems. While this is true to some extent, I’d say rather than the problems building an entirely new wheel, they just recreate the same basic issues in new and complex sort of ways. Sometimes these issues aren’t really all that different at all. They may be the same problems that have been bothering a person ever since they were young– things like confidence, seeking reassurance from others, emotional instability, etc. Again, I reemphasize: age has/got nothing to do with it. Growing older doesn’t magically fix your issues for you. Until a person gets off their ass and decides to do something, they can be 110 and still have the same problems they struggled with since they were 10.

      The mind and heart are two separate things. They are like vinegar and oil. They go well together but they do not mix, quite literally. The same thing applies to emotions and logic. I don’t think it’s a very good thing to assume you are a victim to your desires and lusts. You just need to channel it better. Most people on this planet has sexual desires. No one is born learning to suppress these desires and feelings they may have. Society dictates that we should or else we become cheap whores. I believe the worst part about being such a whore isn’t necessarily that one is overly consumed with sex. It’s that they aren’t genuine and sincere. Our ancestors dealt with whores before the word came about. They probably didn’t have so much of an issue with the person so much with a person having sex as a person sleeping around with every single person. That sort of person is hardly fit to be called a lover or life partner. Perhaps that’s why most of society shunned them for their ingenuine and unscrupulous behavior.

      Why do you let such leeches into your life? Do you hate yourself that much? Do you truly not wish to see yourself happy and be trampled all over by others? To be used, abused, and manipulated? It seems like you don’t truly care about the person you really are at heart.

      I agree the power of one’s heart is something that one has no control over but I feel your heart has quite a few holes. These holes are what make you become compulsively fixated on being with another being, even if they don’t treat you with respect. Because you have this constant desire to fill ‘all that nothing with something’, you turn to chasing, maybe even to sex, alcohol, or other things to help you temporarily relieve the symptoms. But all you’re doing is putting a bandaid on the wound. You’re not treating it and helping it heal. If anything, you’re making it worse each time you rip off an old bandaid and slap on a new one.

      I think humans are strange, sometimes. They fight against each other yet they also seek each other for reassurance. I suppose that’s just the nature of things but I am glad my words could carry themselves to you. I must admit though those words are not exactly mine. Here is a nice little link to where I found it: [http://youtu.be/0sxPQvqnZdQ].

      Again, I suspect your addiction comes from your desire to fulfill your desire to become completed by someone. The problem is you’re investing your energy and lot into someone who isn’t remotely interested in you in the least bit– at least not in the ways that do count. I can’t say I know every single detail about the specifics between you and this person but I can shed light, as an outsider looking in, that you are only following the same footsteps you had done to yourself five years ago. You are continuing your self-fulfilling prophecy dooming yourself a repetitious life of misery and sadness. If you seek for comfort, if you seek satisifaction and love, you’ll never find it here. I know that most gay men are not exactly great either. It’s kind of sad but I don’t blame them for becoming shallow and conceited in the way they are. Even so, I can say you are wronging yourself by desiring a person that does not treat you well, does not respect you, does not even truly love you– at all.

      It’s okay to be broken, disillusioned, misguided, and confused. To be honest, I’d say most of the world is this way but that doesn’t mean that’s all there is left for us to feel. We don’t have to remain broken or lost forever. We can heal ourselves with time and patience. It’s when you start to let love in for the first time… when you begin to show yourself compassion, mercy, and kindness that you find you can truly let people inside of you, when you begin to make peace with the ghosts and daemons of your past, when you take your first few steps to revitalizing harmony and balance in your life. It all comes with time.

      I think it’s pretty obvious what the answer to that question is but just for clarity’s sake: No, he is not all the love you have ever gotten in life and his attention of you should not even be the most important one either. The most important person in your life, the one person whose love you should strive for constantly is your own. Everyone else is secondary. If you cannot take care of yourself and love who you are, you won’t be able to truly love another human being or find true love from others. You’ll constantly be selling yourself away for others to take advantage of. You are special. You are precious. You need to be loved just like anyone else does but your love needs to come from yourself first.

      Yes, that is pretty disgusting but it’s sad mostly, I think/feel. It’s like I said before: you don’t give yourself enough credit. You also are too fixated on receiving love and attention from others first in order to help you find self-love. This is wrong though. You cannot depend on others to find love for yourself. They are inconsequential people who do not understand you as well as you do. If you submit to their desires, if you give up control and authority of your own life in exchange for a little bit of attention/’love’ from others (who, by the way, do not love you because no person who loves another being would EVER take advantage of them), you’ll never find love indeed. You are fulfilling your worst fear. You are making your worst nightmare a reality. Change now before it is too late.

      Turning the Tables here…
      At the end of the day, you need to realize something: you too are a wonderful human being. You too are “so sweet, cool, and very funny.” You too are “unique, and an amazing man.” If you knew yourself, you would probably understand me. But don’t worry, I’m not trying to feed you sugar coated bullshit as that would be dishonest of me. I just feel you need to realize you, too, count and amount to something as well. You shouldn’t sell yourself so short.

      You know, Stef? I think a lot of people are in your shoes. They cry to themselves, they’re constantly unhappy, they hurt themselves and each other, they are messed up psychologically/spiritually/emotionally/physically, and they live on in their dreams and fantasies being haunted by the ghosts of their pasts. Lots of people are letting themselves fall into oblivion so it’s no wonder they’re so unhappy with themselves. The sharp divide between fantasy and reality is unpleasant and as human beings, we are such misguided dreamers sometimes. The problem is the banshees don’t stop their screaming until you understand what they’re truly screaming about. To do that, you have to stop running away from yourself and your own pain and suffering and have the courage…the strength… the determination and will power to set things right. It’s never too late. As long as your living, you can make a difference for yourself.

      I’m sure there is a soft side to the connection you share. I’m sure from all the mist, fog, and rain, there is something that does radiate and keeps you together. I’m not discounting your nugget of gold but I just don’t see it being worth the hellride you put yourself through just to be with him (or in actuallity, to be closer to that golden nugget).

      Soma/Haoma is a mythological drink that was known to be a ‘wonder cure/drug’ that heightened one’s spiritual prowess and vitality. It made the mortal man immortal, and embued them with longetivity (akin to the Fountain of Youth I suppose).

      I can see you are being honest and “naked” in your post. I am not here to spite you or patronize you but I also do not tolerate injustice that people do whether to themselves or each other.

      I’m glad that you let go of your Vampire. To be honest, people like him are better off going their own separate ways– especially due to the gravitational forces they have on another person’s life. As I said before, everyone else is transient. Like leaves on a tree, they’re here for one season and before you know it, gone the next. While 8 years is hardly a season, for most things that have been and are to come, it is nothing but an instant, a wink of an eye. The only person that will remain with you forever is yourself so do your best to treat yourself with respect and the rest will surely follow.

      Regards,
      -Mike

  9. what if I failed all of my life. what does it mean to love oneself?
    what does that implies? how do i start?
    My very first love told me too the same thing… that i dont respect myself and dont love myself too much..this was 25 years ago. and now the same?! im back to square one.
    so how do i realise im in love with myself? what does this mean?
    shall i become the biggest arrogant selfish guy?
    shall i start talking about myself only in front of the mirror and say im the best of the best??
    are we over rationalised who i am? in the end of the day, i am who i am and i should embrace it. life takes me to this point and i dont know how to get out of it. i need to face it and time will heal.
    it is not true that im attracted to leaches. i do that to myself. there is something between me and the people i fall in love with. i just need to re-channel the energy and re-shape the relationship differently. im bound to be surrounded by these people, up to a point, but i need to learn to channel the energy, the love, the passion..differently. so why a gay man doesnt drive me crazy of desire, impulse, admiration and lust like this straight guy?
    Why being gay can be such an insane state of mind?
    all i need is love… and as long as it is love, what does it matter, at least im alive and i feel things.
    to get over this straight guy, i only need to find someone else to love more then him. only love can save me. but that is the problem..where and when is going to happen? i dont know if it will ever do.
    I tried with that gay guy i met..he really took my head off my straight friends greatly. but then it was over and im back to love him and desire him. im really sick, i think. i desire him so badly it is almost pathetic. why all the sex i have with gay men mean nothing at all compared to this guy???
    meanwhile, it s true the only and main love should be love to myself and who i am. but i do. im balanced, im controlled, i love my spirit. but i always doubt myself, im a little lacking in self confidence, i suppose, yes i need to be with someone in order to feel complete and secure and safe.
    i dont like being too much of an ego and burst myself in the world as me me me me. how do i get there? what tells me i love myself? how? and why i have many wonderful people around me that love me – as friend,as a person and so on… why do these people cherish my company and want my company with them? cant they see im in trouble emotionally or is it that this doesnt really bother them and they like me the way i am or i simply dont give that idea?
    today i tried to avoid my straight friend. i made excuses not to see him… but then i gave in and decided to pass by his desk to say hi…
    Jesus… im so in love. i adore him so much and i fancy him so badly. this is really stupid, crazy and quite pathetic. he talks, and all i think is to suck him off or longing to kiss him!!!!
    i actually dont know if i ever going to speak to him clearly. whats the point. he will only feel more and more powerful and egocentrc. blimey…what would it feel for a sraight guy to be loved so much by a man like me? i might ask him this. but i guess the answer wont make any difference to me at ll, as as you say, he doesnt really love me at all.
    there is no pojnt talking to him. really. i just need to re-channel my thinking, my heart and my priorities…which now is to mend my heart for all the heartbreaks…. get back some self confidence and clear my spirit again for love again somebody worth it. but how do i learn to love myself more?
    how do i learn to respect myself more so that i dont fall into the same trap?
    ufffffffff

  10. First of all, how have you failed all your life? There is no such thing. Certainly we all fail in life but we do not fail at it. The only failure of life is giving up. If you have a life, if you still have breath, you have the power to change things for yourself and create a new future. If you’ve accepted that you’re worthless, then that’s something you’ve decided for yourself. Either way, it’s a matter of choice and it’s one that no one can make for you.

    Lots of people do not respect themselves. You’re not alone actually. I am sure he did not entirely love himself or respect himself. Quite frankly, I know I don’t either. It’s been a growing process. I call it “growing pains” of getting used to your own skin. It’s not easy but few things are in life. Being back to square one is also better than being stuck in your own personal Bermuda Triangle.

    If you wish to become the biggest, selfish, and arrogant guy, then so be it. You must decide that for yourself. On a side note, I think a lot of people who are arrogant are insecure and perhaps selfish to themselves more so than they are to others.

    There’s nothing wrong with believing you are “good enough”, contrary to what we are brought up believing. That is not arrogance. That is confidence. That is self-assurance. We’re told that the line that divides them is thin but I’d say it’s pretty obvious what separates the two. It’s a matter of principle and decision making. Arrogant people harness condescension and use their ability to undermine the worth and value of others. Assertive and confident people are not concerned with the characteristics of others. They are more focused in getting attuned with their own strengths and weaknesses. How are those two the same? People don’t know what they’re talking about sometmes I feel when they throw them together. It’s likened to a child calling a tiger a kitty cat. They are not the same thing in the least.

    I don’t think it’s a matter of attraction so much as it is a matter of subtitution. The leeches are substitutes for your inner chasms. They stop the gaps and fill in your void but as I said before, they only treat the symptoms. In many cases, they may actually worsen the injuries you’ve sustained. It’s like someone peeing on you when you’re stung by a jelly fish. I suppose that’s a weird analogy but it works because people assume that the ammonium in urine stops the stinging when, in fact, it actually exacerbates the existing problem.

    I am not /entirely/ certain why but I would hypothesize gay men don’t turn you on as much because you probably hate them for hurting you so much. A lot of your failed relationships come from them, perhaps. Women are obviously out of the question because you don’t like them. So who does that leave? Straight men and Bisexual men. The latter is stigmatized as being “unfaithful” so you probably avoid them. That leaves you with straight men– men who, you find, understand you, appreciate you, and accept you for who you are and what you are. In reality, they don’t have a clue what you’re truly like at your core but you’ve seemingly convinced yourself to see otherwise.

    Being homosexual is not the root cause of insanity though it, too, can exacerbate the existing issues within your psyche– especially in the world which we live in today. I find the gay culture doesn’t truly promote homogenony and harmony among its denizens. Its sub-culture is trash, in my opinion (no offense to anyone who thinks otherwise). I don’t find the gay sub-culture to be very respectable and embracing of components that make up a human being. They’re too fixated on sex, image, and trying to beat respect out of everyone. There’s nothing truly appreciative about those things, I feel.

    Digressing, it is pathetic. It is disgusting and I’m convinced you truly have a vacancy in your soul that you wish to fulfill through the straight man. He and the relationship he provides may give you a sense of comfort and relief from your inner vacancy but I’ll tell you now: No person can EVER be used to substitute, solve, or resolve that part of your heart. In other words, you hole will never disappear through others. It is only going to shrink if you begin to take care of yourself better instead of being so desperately lonely and blinded by your desire to be entangled by someone. I don’t see why you like to punish yourself. Like I said, you must truly not love yourself at all.

    To say all those things and to feel what you feel, you are far from balanced and controlled. You are impartial and segregated. There are parts of you that may be sunshine and flowers that you see within yourself but the rest of you is being dissolved away by your inner miasma.

    “Love [your] spirit” you say? That’s not truly enough. You have to love all of you, not just your spiritual essence. I somehow feel you don’t even truly know that side of yourself. Logically, it wouldn’t make sense for you to love yourself without knowing who you truly are. After all, people who do truly love themselves don’t staple their hearts onto jackasses.

    You don’t seem to understand. It is not egocentric if you actually ‘give a shit’ about yourself. I’m saying you need to do more and actually love yourself, not just ‘give a shit.’ There is NOTHING egocentric/egotistical/arrogant/cocky about loving yourself. You making yourself a priority in your life is not going to make you selfish. If anything, it will make you more able minded and apt to handling your own issues and your loved ones. Who would pass up that opportunity? Fools, I’d say, who bought into the lies that demagogues fed them.

    Clearly, you’re so Hyde and Jeckel about your feelings, you’re incapable of deciding what is right or wrong for you. This is why you need counseling. It will help you understand things about yourself. I suggest you start if you haven’t done so already. Therapy is there to help, not to slap you with a bandaid and send you on your way home– the good kind anyway. Reconsider seeing a professional.

    • @anon. I’m a gay student, age 22 in new delhi. Being gay in india is very hard. It doubles when you dont have tv, internet or computers when you’re growing up and i had not. There’re some misconceptions, the knowledge i didnt have before, which led me to this internalized homophobia but i dont know y am still hating myself. ;(. Y i cant get over that i didnt love a st8 guy who was my friend for six years from 6th to tenth class, and then v both developed physical attraction with each other, believe me it was mutual and i didnt trick him. Maybe he feels guilty for wants to have sex wid me in past but it was not my mistake. [;( sorry am being too emotional] i too felt lyk am addicted to him and he’s my drug and then he asked about having sex and i said no it’ll change our friendship. And then he changed. Coz according to him, gays were f*gs and he cud not take ‘standards’ from such guys. I blame the mentality. The place where he’s coming from. He too was kid back then but that does not mean he still today is sorry cant nything. He thinks it’s my mistake to b gay. And i hate him for that. But the problem is he’d left so much hate in me for me that i’m hurting myself with my apathy, with my ‘it doesnt matter nymore’. I run away from my past teachers coz from a school topper i’m reduced to someone who doesnt even want to study or work. It’s just depression, frustration taking its toll. But y i cant be my old self again? I so much in pain. It’s been six and half yrs since he started emotionally abusing me and then i broke friendship after 5 yrs of torture. i still feel i’m stuck there. He wud touch my hips and ask me that if i’d love to be f****d by the old man passing by on street. And i’d act that it’s disrespectful in front of everyone and try to remove his hands but inside i didnt want to. Coz somehow i craved for his touch. If only i knew how much this was gonna hurt me. He broke my self esteem, he took away my pride and i allowed him to. Just coz i thought none wud touch me. It’s so shameful. I didnt forgive me till today. And i hurt myself by not living a better life.

  11. Hello, my gay friends, I want to say my story. I have had a boyfriend, a mutual boyfriend for 5 years that long lasted and it was very good and happy. I and my boyfriend started a relationship when I was 8 years old and he was 9 years old. Believe me! It was a wonderful experience. We hugged each other, kissed each other, and he held me and I was resting in his chest and it was like a rest. I felt very good and we liked each other. It was only one boyfriend I have had in my life. I am now 35 years old that reminds me good things of him and our love that was spectacular and great. I was so happy when I was with him. It was awesome. There were no sex between him and me and it was only love and how great was kissing each other, hugging each other, and holding each other was a dream. He is straight and I am gay but we do not see each other since 18 years is gone. Well, it is another time. It was a very marvelous time we have had fun each other. I was looking for him and he was open and we liked each other and understood each other and he was a stupendous boyfriend I have had in my life.

    • that is a very sweet memory. I have few of those too.. with straight guys, and i cherish them forever. there is something very charming about love between a gay guy and a straight guy. without sex, but just flirt, love, affection… it is a complicated balance, but sometimes it works. you were very young though, so I guess back then it was easier as you were just young, or were you open and out already when you met im? have you ever felt sexual attraction with him?
      however, they still happen to me. but this time it gets complicated sometimes, so complicated that you forget how beautiful the whole thing can be and it gets messy and hurtful.
      nothing lasts forever. one must know when and where to stop the most beautiful feeling…cause they will not last. but if we are lucky, we can live with our heart full of love, memories of love and charming sensations.
      Have you ever seen this guy again? it may not be the same….
      x

  12. Wow you rote a lot of that

  13. I’ve never posted a comment anywhere, but feel I must now. Stef’s comment that for love to exist it must be reciprocated is utter nonsense. LOVING is the greatest gift one can experience. Having LOVE in your heart is what validates our existence. The mistake most make is looking to be loved. The true gift is LOVING. Very few find that gift. Treasure it when you do.

    • I’m sorry, I don’t know who you are but it is /not/ utter nonsense. Love is not just passion or the feelings one feels. Certainly having those feelings is important but if you can’t recognize that there’s more to love than just having affection, compassion, or heartfelt feelings for another human being you don’t know what love truly is.

      Love is a culmination of many things even though it houses one.
      It can convey the breadth of one’s feelings, intentions, and entire life with a single expression.

      But it’s something that should not be treated so lightly. It is the most sacred aspect of ourselves. That said, what Stef’s comment (and mine as well) refers to is the concept love is something that needs to be exchanged and shared for it to be truly love in its truest form. Otherwise it’s just infatuation.

  14. When I say I failed is because I believed my passion and desire for straight guys would finally end after years and years of disappointment and frustrations.
    However, I am in love with a straight guy again. I fancy him more then anything and more then anyone around my life at the moment.
    im in complete love. i know you dont think this is real love, as love is between two people that actually both love each other in a reciprocated way. But I agree with PTRCK.
    there is love. in a sick, strange way, we love each other. and love is also this.
    love has got many more facets then we can ever imagine. Love is not “THIS” or “THAT”. we all hardly know anything at all about love… and noone can really say what love is and tell others what love is not.
    Do you have an answer to everything? lucky you. I don’t. I never will. I follow my heart and I bloody cherish it.
    I think the issue of this post – to fall in love with straight men – is to due to gay people general emancipation, sense of difference, the cration of the GAY world,
    with its rule and configurations..basically is a totally modern issue.
    Back in Roman times the word gay or homosexual did not even exist. people just LOVED and had sex with whoever they felt they wanted to and there was not so much psychological, ethical or neurotic drama. We gay people created a world of our own and so we created things we we are presuming are out of this segregated world..such as fancying or loving a “STRAIGHT” guy.. what a drama eh? what disgusting to to do for a Gay men ah? be G A Y yeh!!!! onyl GAY GAY GAY. it is so sickening.
    I myself have gay friends which as soon as they realise that I have many best straight friends…they go all drama and they think im a wierdo cause i hang out with “STRAIGHT” people. needless to say i don’t judge them but i neither take them seriously because they are sad people who decided to live under one stupid, retarded and segregated umbrella. we gay people made headlines and protest all history to be free and open to society and now we are creating our own stupid boundaries ourselves.
    you know what? this is nonsense.
    my heart Is lost again towards a man that will never love me back as much as i would like him to.
    Does this all mean that I hate myself? I don’t love myself at all?
    What does it mean to love oneself? it is pretty clear that i need therapy, im fucked, im sick, im disgusting..and all that…but really?? im starting to think I am Not.
    Of course I wont become a selfish arrogant gay mafioso… because I am not. That is not what I meant..I was sort of exaggerating of course!
    am i really that bad because i love?? actually, no. I believe is nothing to do with hating myself.
    this is nonsense.
    It is not true that this is because gay men failed me…i met great guys in my life, we just didnt hit it on relationship-wise.. I grew up with gay friends. I relate to gay friends and spent my life with them I just find them too similar to me. We are like sisters…we are all the same, pretty much.
    But that didn’t make me turn towards the straight guy as a consequence. i dont turn to straight guys as a reaction…i just do because that is the way i am. because he loves me and we love each other in a different way and it is not a joke, a game. it is true. he finds it hard to let me talk to him…i know why…i suddenly realised it… because he is afraid to be a cause of hurt or issue for me. because he is afraid to loose me as a friend. so he prefer to keep things as they always are (being friends) and avoid complicated emotional discussion that could culminate in us being torn apart as friends. I think this is ok.
    i have to stop fancying him… cause it is me who created this situation..and i want him in my life. he is an adorable friend. he is not using me…he is simply scared of what i have to tell him and he doesn’t know what to reply to me and he doesn’t want me to leave him because im hurt.
    And he is simply always there, with me, bad or good.
    Loving me in his own way. i think this is beautiful i dont agree with you at all.
    i just need to face up that my life is complicated and my feelings are not black and white. gay or straight. no.. life has got many millions different facets and possibilities. there isnt one thing right or wrong.
    one day we will part completely, probably, and what will be left of us? that we loved each other, both in our own little way. what the hell is wrong with that? people go about everyday life hating, disguising, stealing, breaking people hearts… all i do with my friend is entering the strange world of loving one other at SAME level. whatever way that is, whichever way it is. it will end of course. maybe our hearts will be broken,,,..and so what?
    am i really that sad person for loving someone???
    the truth is that my heart goes other ways i cant predict.
    Why this all means I hate myself??? I dont understand!
    … I failed completely the whole of my life and I am still failing…… BUT REALLY?
    Ok I can change.. Can you REALLY change Your own self?
    No. Nothing will ever change us. we are not in control of ANYTHING in this world. not even ourselves. we just respond to the biological mass we are made of.
    Im doomed to suffer. Im doomed to suppress my true sexual instincts towards this straight guy…
    Im doomed to do naughty, lashivious and vacuous wild sex with gay men. Cheap thrills. Body thrills that wont last. Cause this is sex without love.
    I separate gay sex and love sex. I never had love sex ever. I never loved someone deeply and have sex with him,
    All of my life I had sex with gay men, but I have been in deep love with straight guys, at the same time.
    Of course im fucked…yes right. But REALLY? You know what? im starting to think This means exactly the opposite. I love myself for it cause Im true to myself.
    I dont pretend I can change myself cause I will never. And I dont want to because I love who I am.
    I am a contraddiciton, an enigma, a fucked up insane stupid thing? Great!
    I wouldnt trade myself for anything or anyone. honestly. im just moaning and whining…the truth is that I really do love myself, but myself is a strange contraddictive thing.
    …i am very complex and complicated… so fucking what?
    If I had to reborn today, I would be exactly the same person who I am.
    Fuck the sadness, the depression and the illusons. That is me and I love myself for it.
    I wont shout it out loud too much, because I don’t believe one has to shout about himself too much.
    I love it and I take it in. this is what god made me into.
    These are the men my biological self and spiritual self is drawn to and I fall in love to.. So what?
    Is that wrong?
    What is right? What is wrong? Do you really know the difference?
    i think i do…. i am true to myself and i follow my heart.. simple.
    Is it a fake rose-tinted pink and smiling marriage better then being true to yourself and live the way YOU ARE?
    Im fucked up, illogical, strange, complicated, extreme, silly, pathetic, contraddictive, addictive, drug addict, sex addict and, as you say, ‘disgusting’.
    But I now realise that I completely love myself. I just need to face the fact that i am not really a black and white guy. i live with contraddictions, fears and mistakes… i am human!
    I adore myself up to every single corner of my hair, eyes and bones.
    The reason why I am not in a fake, rose-tinted, pink and futile relationship with some pretty man that I can pick up EVER day in ANY gay bar
    is because I don’t believe in half baked relaitonship, I don’t dwell in mediocrity, like may gay men do.
    I love this guy? Well I am facing the situation and im doing my best. i actually LOVE. like ptrk would suggest.
    why am i crying over my shoulder? Life is a pigsty…is not a rose tinted garden.
    Love is DRUNK and BLIND. Is not a pretty rosey smiling Cupid. and yes, can be just a feeling of LOVING like patrick is saying.
    I choose to live my life in danger. I hurt myself every single day….. Well that is much better then being ‘content’ for nothing. or trying to be someone else i am not.
    Dwell in what everybody else THINK is better for you.
    To hell the good things and the right things
    I am who I am, and if that is ‘wrong’ for some people, fuck them.
    my friend will walk away one day. and i ll be alone. so what?
    i gave love, i tried to love and i am not hiding it.
    will a person like me ever be completely happy?
    maybe not, cause maybe i am already happy and i dont even realise it. but are you really happy? are you really that perfect? do you really know what love is better the all of us?
    the conjecture of love are much more profound, complicated, mysterious.
    we know noting at all about anything.
    i might try to find therapy… which i did years ago already anyway (it all ended up that i am a very happy, grounded and succesfulll human being…believe me or not)
    i will always doubt myself, always question myself and will never take me for granted. i should stop complaining that im in love with the wrong guy and just face the situation and be happy about it and move on. that how i will move on…but accepting who i am and that to love someone is NOT disgusting.
    I am LOVE. whatever that entails me to.
    and my bones, spirits and strange love situations is what i am made of. people love me for that and i really love myself for it. i just need to show it a little bit more and don’t let other people judge me and tell me i am disgusting.
    but thanks for the intellectual tease. honeslty im not havin g go at you Anon… im just realising the situation from a completely different point of you, which im doing thanks to your words and straightforward comments…. that i actually love myself, i need to accept myself, stop complaining and move on with my life with a smile because i am LOVE ….i am not a selfish cretin moronic gay asshole. I am a man who is not afraid to love, to express it and to take it as it is…but i only need to move on now. cause of course you are right saying that love is not only a feeling..but it can also be reciprocated. so i will always look for that, from now on. i will try to move on with my straight friend admitting that i love him and will keep this for the rest of my life… but i now can move on to other situations and point my finger to the future with the hope to fall in love in a reciprocated way and with a GAY MAN!!!! :)
    in the meantime, i dont agree with you. i am not disgusting. i am love. and it IS wonderful, just like me and my contraddictions, my issues…all of that… is beautiful.
    I dont agree with you about the love concept. LOVE IS A FEELING. and it can have many many many different ways. i am one of them. and I would not Trade myself or anyone or anything for it.
    I am true to myself and i just need to stop mouning abd accept life is a mystery, we just need to embrace it with joy and compassion and hope, and love.
    x
    x
    x

    • The word “fancying” should not be confused or

      understood as “love.” Love and “fancy” are

      two separate things. While fancing “can” lead

      to love, they are not mutually

      interchangeable. To illustrate: It would be

      no different than to fill-out an application

      and expect you’ll get the position. Just

      because you submit in the application doesn’t

      mean you’ll get the job.

      Stef, you seem to be very confused and

      ambivalent about many things so I’ll try to

      explain some things to you. First of all, I

      remain steadfast and firm on where I stand

      regardless of how you and Patrick may see

      things. As you admitted, you are “in love in

      a sick strange way.” Here’s the problem with

      that: “love” is not sick nor is it strange.

      It is unique, a blessing, and something that

      fills the very canvas of your being. The only

      thing you feel is desperation and loneliness.

      You continuously delude yourself by believing

      that you /and/ this guy are mutually in love.

      You know the truth: you two are not. Mutual

      love is different than what you two are in.

      You may not know it, you may not understand

      it, you may not even acknowledge it. It

      changes nothing.

      “We all hardly know anything at all about

      love…” Nothing could be further from the

      truth. While love can be mysterious and

      illusive, it is not mythological. It is not a

      fantasy or dream. While love’s paths may

      weave and wind in different direction, the

      destination point for us ALL is the same.

      There have been people in the past who have

      loved and found those who they devoted to for

      the rest of their lives. There are those who

      continue this and there will be people who

      will love, truly and deeply, their partners

      without the conditions of self-hate/

      confusion/destruction. It is you who, I think, doesn’t understand what love is, especially if you can’t recognize the different characteristics of it. Love for a friend, love for family, love for a partner. These are three separate forms of love. You love your “friend” more than just a friend. He doesn’t. That’s the issue but I don’t need to make that obvious.

      I answer to what I wish to. I don’t pretend

      that I know everything but just the same, I

      know I can’t be complacent like yourself and

      others to things and pretend to live a lie.

      That’s pretty harsh coming from me, a

      stranger who doesn’t know the first thing

      about you except that you’ve convinced

      yourself that you’re in love with someone who

      doesn’t seem to give a damn about you. For me

      though, that’s enough to understand and

      predicate the fact you are lost and need

      help. Quite frankly, you’re contradicting

      yourself with “there is love. in a sick,

      strange way, we love each other” and then

      with “my heart Is lost again towards a man

      that will never love me back as much as i

      would like him to.” You don’t even know what

      you want so before you start telling me you

      love someone and then claim no one can ever

      know what love truly is, I think you need to

      seriously think into self-refleciton,

      therapy, and some counseling.

      Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think you’re

      “bad” for loving someone who doesn’t love

      you. That’s stupid. I don’t say this to spite

      you or smear it in the face. If anything, I’m

      saying this to help you and to wake you up.

      If you want to continue to hurt yourself in

      the way you do and convince yourself of your

      infatuation for someone is “love”, that isn’t

      my problem or business. I do, however, feel

      sad and am trying to reach out to you in my

      own way. That’s all.

      The gay world is, in fact, an incomplete and

      impartial fantasy that detaches from truth–

      at least the part of it that immerses itself

      into the vestiges of suburban life. At its

      very root, being “gay” means liking another

      man. It’s not a culture, it’s not an

      attitude, it’s not even truly a mind set but

      human expression defines the pairing of

      same-sex relationship and provides it

      dimmension. So, it becomes something more

      than just a matter of sex, it becomes an

      attitude, an image, a culture that thrives on

      reflection and expression– much like

      everything else that is truly human.

      I know for a fact that there was no such

      thing as “homosexuality” as a word. I come

      from the middle east where religion and other

      things like this evolved from. I don’t think

      being “gay” is sickening. In fact, in the

      event you were trying to be sarcastic or

      twist my words, you really didn’t understand

      what I said to you. I didn’t call “gays”

      disgusting or “sickening”. I’m basically

      referencing the idea of gays AND other people

      devoting their energy and time to a dead-end

      relationship when they know better

      “sickening” and “disgusting”. As I said

      before, it is the action, not the person

      which I find disgusting.

      To me, ultimately, it doesn’t matter if your relationships have failed or not in the past. I feel you’re just running away from yourself and lying to your own heart; you’re betraying yourself because you fear to be committed perhaps or maybe to truly let your guard down and let yourself go in not just the rapture but the entirety of what love truly means. I think you carry stigma from the past and you try to hide your battle scars with complacency and detachment. Either way, there is some sort of hole and this frined of yours seems to be a place holder since no one else can do that for you.

      Why do I say what I say to you? Because it’s happened to several people many times. People who devote themselves thinking it’s innocent, it’s harmless, that there’s nothing wrong about loving another person for all the reasons you provide in your post. Let’s be honest though for once, this isn’t even about love anymore, truthfully or we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Love isn’t something that is temporary and then falls apart. When you truly love someone, you surrender yourself to them and they to you. Is there really any sense of surrendering in what you continuously label as “love”? No.

      “Our hearts will be broken and so what?” Don’t act like it’s a small thing. You need to treat your heart with more respect than just that. It’s like saying, “I’ll die someday from drinking myself to death but so what?” Knowing the risks, if you still plunge yourself in simply to maintain the superficial benefits of the situation, that also cannot be called “love”.

      Can you “REALLY” change yourself? It depends actually. What you think is something that is permanent is not, in fact. Without dabbling too much into psychology and neurology, I will say this much: the human mind is CONSTANTLY changing. What doesn’t change is the core of your essence, your well being. Everything else does shift and change. If it didn’t, you’d die. It’s either adapt and survive or die trying. So, you see, things DO change even whilst them remaining the same.

      You seem to keep asking me the same questions over and over again. You only further prove my point about your insecurities, inconsistencies, and ambivalences of the matter.

      Life is about learning from failures, not surrendering to them. You’re not doing anyone a favor by giving up and accepting things as is– which IS what you are doing. You’re deciding to lay down and die. I called that disgusting. That’s where we stand.

      Nothing will ever change us? We are not in control of ANYTHING in this world? That is all BS. I do agree that we do not control many things but there are things we do control and are SOLELY responsible for. Our actions and choices are two such exmaples. How we live, what we decide for ourselves, what we believe is true are also examples of things we do have choices in. Don’t make up excuses to weasel your way out of life’s extremeties. We’ve all been there. You choose to believe you’re helpless and powerless but remember: no one forced you to be that way. You decided to believe you are helpess, “a failure”, and so on and so forth.

      You don’t even understand what love is let alone what TRUE self-love is. “Completely love myself?” Yeah right.

      What is right and wrong? Being true to myself and being true to others. That’s a start of defining what is right and wrong.

      Poor you, you’re soooooo complex and complicated and the rest of us are just sooooo simple. Get real dude. What you think may be a case of “NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HOW I FEEL” is just a childish decry of “I DON’T WANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD ESPECIALLY BY MYSELF.”

      Love can have the effect of a drink but it isn’t blinding, at least not true love. True love NEVER betrays you like you are betraying yourself.

      Anyway, I have nothing further to discuss with you. It’s evident you have little understanding on the matters of self-love, truth, among other things. At this point, it’s safe to say you will remain as you are. Disgusting or not, beautiful or not, damaged or not– it makes no difference to me. Believe as you have and continue to think what you will. It is, after all, your life. If you’ve failed it and thrown in the towel, so be it. I’ve done all that I’ve can to help you try to see things different not to hurt you but to pull you out of your slump. If you wish to remain as you are, so be it. I hope you do continue to pursue therapy and may see things differently in time but even if you don’t, it’s not truly my problem anyway.

      I don’t agree with you, you don’t with me. Neither one of us agrees so we shall respectfully disagree. That is all.

  15. Great article, so full of sense… that´s why I´m always in love with the ¨wrong¨ones :) thnx for this…

  16. Why don’t you ask why so many straight men like girls? First, if you are implying that gay men like males that are not yet adults, that is not generally the case. In the gay world, the word “boy” or “boi” is used to refer to other males. It doesn’t mean men are going after underage guys. As a culture, straight men and gay men both tend to like or admire sexual objects at the prime of their sexuality – which is around 17 for men and perhaps a bit younger for women. It doesn’t mean they should act on it – esp if it is against the age of consent. But that is the purpose of sexual maturity – to be an object of sexual desire and attract someone else.

  17. Anon,
    my ’bout’ of self promotional bullish try to make myself believed and strong and to turn things around didnt work at all. who am i fooling? myself only i know. so thank again for writing me and thanks again for throwing reality at my face. of course, you are right. and of course i try to stick some of your words in my mind so that maybe something will happen. but i know myself, something will happen ..it just takes its own time and life morph into other directions at his own pace. im not good as you at writing but it doesnt matter. there is sense in everything you say, i just want you to know that in my previous email i was trying to prove myself right but of course, im just running away from myself and drawing in solitude and desperation and pain further and further. great! :)
    i had some very stressful weeks. i havent talked to my ‘friend’ for two weeks as somethign he did got me very hurt. i struggle to come to terms with him there is so much going on in our lifes but we patched things up eventually last friday. I told him i was very hurt by him and i didnt want to see him ever again.. but he obviously managed to calm me down and we met and i found myself in love with me so badly, all over again. for now, i cannot live without him. i adore him too much and i just cant. i found out things i didnt like to find out. and of course there will be more. yes i love him and yes he doesnt love me (in the same way). but you dont get me in many things, somehow… as i do love, i do surrender completely, it is not the past..this is me right now..ready to love, surrender and give myself to a man i love. but of course, i choose the wrong guy and im just heading for failure. we said this already million of times.
    but the mysteries of love between men and men are not that simple. anyway, when i decided not to see him anymore (for two weeks) i felt ok-ish…. and now that we patched things up (in a way, but not really) my longing for him is stronger and i dream of him and i am completely fallen for him. i look at him and i just want him. is crazy. i feel sick. completely. anyway. he gave me a lift in his car to the tube last friday… he had to meet his wife at some point in the street. driving there we heard some songs, we sang together, i kissed his cheek, I touched his face, I hold his hands, I kissed his hand… then we saw his wife, he pulled, i went out the car to say hi to her and to both and he shouted at me, ‘stef you forgot something!’ so i went up to him again in the car and he gave me a hug and i kissed him on his cheek. he knows how i like to hug him every single evening to say goodbye for the day…every single day of our life we have done this affection for the last 3 years. (the previous 5 years we just said goodbye, by email or msg, but without hugging :) then the wife went in the car again and they left. as soon as they drove away, i started crying like an abandoned child.
    to see him leavign in his car without me but with his wife, is the first time ever in my life since i know him that got me really crying.
    because i am really alone. I mean, the man i love is not in love with me, has his wife and children, while i was left alone in the street. someone else might have read this experiences as sweet and cute… he just wanted to be nice to me and carry on a tradition of affection between us that we both started.. but im hurting and i cant stand it anymore.
    of course Anon you are right. I just feel hopeless, lost in this desire, lost in this unrequitted love, a love which is not proper love but it is love regardless. I just wish it was all true but it never will.
    those two weeks, my life was so dull and void and empty without him. I dont love anyone but him, so the small crumbles of love he manages to give me, somehow they fill my void, ever so slightly, but at least is something. but of course, you are right. of course.
    I really want to re channel this energy. re shape this friendship, this love, this whatever i call it. there is something between us, but it is not what i want and im loosing myself in it.
    the hard bit is that he will never be bad to me. he will never tell me bad things which in a way is bad because i need to turn away from him by myself, and it is hard. but it needs to be done, somehow.
    for now, my desire is burning me and this love i feel is just draining my energy away from reality.
    question is, will there ever be another chance for me to happiness and complete love? after i have been living in such a way since i was born? What if THIS is my essence of myself you were talking about? an essense that in itself will never take me to full love and happiness cause i fall in love with straight men who dont completely love me?
    same question, million post after. same story. same mysteries. no much answers here. just confirmation that i Am failing myself and my life and i still havent found love in m life. only sex, pleasures, friends, experiences of love, signs of love, small portions of love, but not love complete and eternal. there is something that you probably havent understood in any of my posts : I AM trying to make sense of my WHOLE life. not this situation, not the gay guy last december, not this straight man…the whole of my life. because i havent found love yet and because i keep on falling in the same trap. i AM true to myself and to others.. i dont hide my passions and desires…i express them and i give it a go. they fail..but I am following my heart that is all. but my heart betrays me cause it always draws me to the wrong ones.
    anyway. i really appreciate your letters. I saved them and i will read back and i will try to let you and your words help my sub-consious and move on. of course you must ne so fed up of me and i wouldnt blame you! as now is my turn to move on and stop this nonsesn of ‘relationship’…. because it is not and i need ot have one. as the love of my life might be just around the coner, but im not letting him in because im lost in this situation with this friend.
    I just want to say that, thanks you so much, regardless of what happens.
    s

  18. I think it’s for reasons that none of you are owning here, nor do most homosexual men ever admit. The “impenetrable” male and organic total top is a concept that is rare and sought after (even if in secret) by many, many gay men. I am not speaking of the homophobic, self-hating man who is insecure with his own nature and thus, cops-out and identifies as “top” (whilst secreting craving a penis in his ass). I’m referencing the natural yin and yang and existence of the masculine and the feminine, the dominant and the submissive that exists in nature and within the human species.

    Feminism and the gay rights movement are both political efforts that I support and embrace. Socially and intellectually, I in no way see women, nor homosexual men as “less” than myself. By the same token (and in defiance of my very liberal sensibilities), I am very much an alpha, assertive, natural top, in bed. I legitimately am aroused by the feminine and by softer-natured men (who are vilified by most, including their peers in the gay community). Penis does little for me and I have received anal sex and anal toys, before, but this physical act and the psychological concept of it does not arouse me, at all. These feelings have only become stronger, over time, and I have ironically tried to reject them, for fear of being one of the typical assholes who is in denial of his ‘softer’ side of complete sexual nature.

    I have concluded that some of us (myself included) are natural tops – I identify as bisexual, per a legit interest, especially sexually, in females – and I find it somewhat ignorant that the masses declare the politically correct argument that “every man, regardless of orientation, is ‘versatile’ and needs and wants a penis in his ass and mouth.” This argument is also proposed by “Davey Wavey.” In actuality and in respect to my own nature and that of open-minded, secure hetero, bi, and certain homosexual men who know themselves quite well, I would argue that there are some of us who embrace a real energy of “total top” in a way that is incredibly appealing to many, many gay men and we share a similar energy to the ‘straight’ men whom you all are referencing.

    Not all of us are closet case jerks and homophobes and I think if you dropped the “versatile” politically correct act, you could own that what many gay men really find incredibly hot about legit, compassionate and secure (sexually aggressive) straight men is that they sexually embody what you secretly crave in the bedroom. It’s in defiance of proper speak and modern gay politics, but I suspect it’s a secretly harbored turn-on and ultimate attraction for more than you may realize.

    On the flip side, I find the feminine and especially feminine men who are natural bottoms to be beautiful, amazing creatures and I wish that more gay men could and would feel the same.

    • very interesting shane.
      i totally connect with your thinking. with some limitations. i realise that i am attracted, physically and psychologically, to the alpha male you are talking about. which is probably the main reason why i fall in love with straight friends… and the one i love right now is the biggest, self-assured, strong minded, stubborn, strong, energetic, egocentric and self confident ALPHA MALE i ever met in my whole life ! lol. he is amazing and only the idea of being related to him as friend, gives me strenght and comfort and i want to be dominated by his presence, his physicality his mentality. i just want to fit in his scheme of life. it is a very strange feeling, but i know where it is coming from. and it is the alpha male concept you are describing. only difference in my case, is that i am very straight acting, straight looking and so on… i am not feminine at all, but only in some part of my personality (I do queen out with my gay friends!!! lol)
      i am not feminine at all. and i actually dont like at all gay guys which are so stubbornly feminine, queeny, tweeny…yuck. (please anyone stop before saying i have issues with my personality and for i am rejecting my feminine side n im trying to hide it and all that bullshit!) :) i am a real men and i love real man. and my idea of manliness is what you describe…. strong, cock sure and dominant. Which only means that i am intrinsically a strange creature…something is not quite right. cause in the end of the day the straight guy is straight and he is not in love with me and he is not going to have sex with me. (But he let me kiss him, hold his hands, do affectionate gestures with him) but then im torn because i want his cock and i want be possessed by him!!!! i want a dominant top, masculine men to love and to receive love from… but in the gay world is slightly difficult to find, as we mostly want a cock up our ass and we are all a bit passive :) i think is a nature trick…a grey zone of manliness which is difficult to define and to rationalise. men affection, feelings and attitude to each other, gay to gay, straight to gay and so on, is a mystery to me. but i do now realise i am a masculine men, which somehow wants an alpha man by his side but I cannot find it! so i get in emotional trouble with straight guys (cause they are many alpha males there) in the meantime :( and it hurts.
      Also, i dont htinkg is ONLY a sex thing. yes of course the cock and the fucking is important ( ai am a systematically passive man) but it is also psychological. i listen to him as my strong voice, personality which is only a way to be potent, strong and self assured in life. bit like a father figure.
      (again – STOP anyone saying i have father issues cause i dont! lol) I was ALWAYS, since i was 10, attracted to strong, assertive, alpha males. they just create a world around themselves which i want to be part of. anyway, this is adouble edge sword for me. cause it is an attractoon that unfortunately has led me, and it is leading me, to hurt, sadness an dloneliness cause i ended up falling in love with straight friends, and it is all very messy, silly and it is not real love.
      also, i really dont know what it is this thing about politically correctness and the versatile thing… never heard this silly thing. I dotn care what peopel say, i like to be passive and i am always attracted sexually wot guys who want to give it, rather then receive it. cause i LOVE receiving it!! hhaa
      no idea what people talk about ad..never heard of it… and it doesnt make any sense at all. i certainly dont agree with it.

  19. as a straight man, i find gays very nice people, i can’t be attracted to them sexually, i just can’t, but i am attracted to their feminine souls and tender hearts, they are sensitive, empathetic, and more in touch with their feelings, unlike my most straight male friends. when i need a shoulder to lean on , i go to a gay friend.

    • I’m glad you are a friend and ally. Gay men have no problem getting sex and don’t need to be having sex with straight guys anyway! What we need are allies in the straight community. It’s great that there are guys like you around!

  20. interesting theory, but I have another one! A large number of gay men are attracted to straight guys based on this simple rule of natur: “opposites attract”. …It’s cruel but there’s no cure or solution for it……it’s cruel cause as long as you have a male body, no matter how feminine you are a straigh man will not fall in love with you and won’t like to have sex with you. (well, they might, but they still prefer a real woman! a woman who is feminine in the brain and heart and in body both) ….lots of gay guys (not all) are exteremley feminine in tne brain and heart but they still have a male body…..they obviously get attracted to the opposite of what theye are INSIDE. no matter how much society become acceptance of gay people ( and I hope it will soon….), this number of feminine gay men will still be attracted to a man who is a MAN inside and out, and that’s a masculine straight man. Those gay guys who are more 50-50 % feminine are luckier because they still get attracted to some aspects of feminity in a nother male (like that of themselves), and some aspects of masculinity in him. For you Western people it’s a bit hard to undesratdn becasue you’re not familiar with the idea of Yin and Yang……I suggest u to study femenity and masculinity in nature to understand my theory better. having said so, I don’t belive what u’ve said regarding hating ourselves becasue of being feminine is wrong. It’s unfortunately true. but it will go away as the human socity developes and gets rid of Christian and Islamic bullcrap. (sorry if you’re religious and that’s harsh!) …..jut have a lok at some Asian societies in the past, and you’ll see that all these issues didn’t exist among them untill they were modernized and Christian missionaries entered their lands….among some indegenoues cultures feminine men were considered holy, sacred and unearthly. they were admired and usually became high priests. ……bt at the end of the day, we are attracted to what we ARE not or what we LACK. if we’re feminine we’re after masculinity and vice versa. and if we’re 50-50 , then we’re after half and half of both……. :-) ….thnx for reading guys, and sorry about my bad English. it’s my second language and I just rushed typing these….have a good time :-) XXX

    • Yaniv,

      It’s very interesting hearing the views of people from different cultures. From what I have seen, there are men who are attracted to other men all across the spectrum of masculinity and femininity. In many traditional cultures, particularly Eastern societies, there sometimes seems to be an accepted place for the more feminine men, as almost a “third gender.” Some of these men might even be transgendered. But it seems like there is not so much of a place for the more masculine men who are attracted to other men. I have the impression that often they will marry and have a family, and perhaps have sex with other men on the side.

      In the West, we have this identity of “gay,” which is a fairly recent idea. (Of course, men being attracted to men goes back as far into history as we can go.) Personally, I feel like a masculine man – not macho, but not effeminate either. And I am attracted to other masculine men like myself. Generally speaking, the more feminine a man is, the less I will normally be attracted to him (but there can be exceptions…). This doesn’t seem to fit into your idea of opposites attracting, but I think a lot of more masculine men feel as I do. I wonder what you think about this.

      Preman

  21. I have had a boyfriend and he knew I am gay and he was straight. Our relationship long last for five years. It was long that enough. I still love him. I miss him because I need the love he gave me. Let’s be honest. I am straight and my boyfriend is also straight. We are the same sex. My guy was a Braddley Manning typo. He looked like Braddley Manning and our relationship was very good because there was only love, mutual, hugs and kisses and companionship than sex. Sex was not important to us. Love was important to us. It is like David and Jonathan love. It is very rare about true love of the same sex. Well, original and true love is the way it is. Many can imitate or pretend but real love is rare and few cases. Sex is not love. Love is love. Sex is volatile. Sex is ephemeris. Love is eternal because love is love. When there is sex, destroys love. Of course, sex is important. Lucky love is very hard to find a straight guy who can fall in love with a gay guy. That’s very rare. It is a special case.

  22. Well I think there could be more than one theory to explain the causes that make gay men love straight men. What if there’s an atraction of opposites? Maybe there are some cases where self-hate plays a part. But wouldn’t the main issue be that femenine people feels atracted to masculine people? Independently if the femenine person is a man or a woman and viceversa. I think that meanwhile feminity and homosexuality can come along, in some cases it’s not necesarily like that. So that’s why some gay men are more propense to this kind of infatuation than others, and it’s not only atraction to straight men but to masculine men in general (and of course is more easy to find with straight men).

    I see myself as a femenine person and have always found charming masculine people (without degrading myself for this object of affection, cause I can’t stand the submissive role often asociated with a pthological feminity), so when I feel atracted to a guy (gay or straight) he always have a share of masculinity. And I don’t see in myself a hating for feminity since I’ve idolize femenine people a lot, but then I’ve realized it is quite different. The latter means there are people I can identify with and/or have traits that I would like to display.

    Only saying this to add another possible theory suitable to some but not to all cases.

  23. I don’t know! I can kind of get it, cause they seem like the un-atainable. Then again, I’m gay, and I dont like fem men. I’m gay… That means I’m atracted to… Well, a, MAN. I get preferences. That just isn’t mine

  24. Straight men are not interested. If they are then they are
    bi not straight. Please don’t cruise straight men. If you
    want to know a guys preference you can tell who he looks
    at in a crowd. If he likes woman move on.

  25. Many gay men find straight guys attractive because they have many of the psychological aspects of straight women, whether by conditioning or innate character. When gay men consider this behavior “homophobic” they may actually be revealing their misogynistic tendencies. As disturbing as it may be some gay men view straight women as potential rivals.

  26. why would a gay guy luike me even if i have never talked to him and i have a girlfriend

  27. I’ve always had this problem, for as long as I can remember…. It all started in second grade when I had a huge crush on this one boy, I would follow him around and almost be like a slave to him, taking every what would seem to be piece of affection for an act of true love. Even now a days I find that I like other men with the same exact hair cut! And I would grow up, desperately needing his love, attention, and affection even thought he thinks im just some gay weird kid that likes him… It even happens we followed in the same school like, elementary, middle school, and high school. I learned that at middles school, people thought being gay was an absolute wrong, and should have people like that just go and kill themselves. So I started to act more what you call ‘masculine’ even through that feminine side keped popping up in me every were I went. T.T And I started to realize that I dont really like him because of his personality, im just majory attracted to his sculpted chin, and ripped body, with amazing hair cut… … that I dont TRULY like him or he likes me, that honestly was kinda a slap in the face to me, how I know how he dosent care, and If I died he would just be glad there wasent that kid you would catch looking at you in class there anymore to make you unconfortable. I realize that it wasent fair to him either, to be tormented by my eyes, and unatractive ways always following him around. So I tried to convince myself that he wasent the one for me, and was I was just a puppet for his ‘Body and charm’ . I admit, it was extremely painful watching him grow up and date other girls, slutty ones too T_T. So in middles school thats when my full blown depression came in, (I did have it in elementary and would cry in the bathroom stalls sometimes) I began thinking I should just kill myselfs since I will never been the normal person, or what I always wanted to be, then I started hating my homosexual side, because of how it was holding me back. So I started this depressing revolution on my mind that would always lead to You-have-got-to-kill-yourself. I didnt resort to cutting myself, Which im glad. So from now on, whenever I think of those moments when I did all of those things, (I did have REALLY embarasing moments around him when I would go speachless or just almost plain out say I LOVE YOU [never did, never will]) and I would cringe to it, thinking that if I could go back in time, I would want to either erase myself or the whole ‘him’ piece…. therefor leading to my road of self inflicted pain and hate, a depressing life in which I hope someday I can lead to another person, who has all the traits I like that can fofill my fantasies. Whom I can grow up to be old, and a agree on certain subjects like vegetarianism etc…

    From there on out, I always thought love was not just a gift, but a spike in the back of your head, but it can sometimes even be both at the same time, thinking that maybe I have never even experience ‘true’ love like others. And I probably will grow old with nobody to love, and maybe die from killing myself from all the self hate and pain. Then it hit me, I didnt have all these problems because of HIM it was because of ME. If I hadent been born like this all of this wouldnt of pieced together to lead to such a tragic event of time in my life. So now I’ve moved on, to another guy in highschool at this time…. Only to repeat the cycle from which it started.

  28. I think it’s just that most guys are straight, not many gay guys to choose from. If you’re attracted to a guy, odds are he’s straight. I really don’t think it’s anything else but that.

  29. Are you stupid? This post lacks sense it feels more like spastic ramblings of someone who forgot to take their court ordered meds. The assertion that “people want what they can’t have” only applies to increasing people’s desire for things they want in the first place by not giving it to them. (Not like the broad assumption you made that to deny access is the sole cause of desire. Besides easily obtained things are given little value, ie basic psychology. For proof, think of the last overly clingy partner you’ve had; fun at first, but sickening and boring after long enough).

    On to number two. OF COURSE “GAY” Males prefer masculinity to femininity. If they were aroused by the femininess of a person then they probably would be a whole lot more in to women then MEN. The whole point of gay is that they are in to men, and masculinity is much more closely associated with MEN then femininity is. This just seems obvious but… Eh another example of our school systems failure.

    Point third and final. I suspect gays are into the “straight” porn for the same reason normal people are into “teen” porn. They want to feel special by being the first to be somewhere sexually. They like the idea of breaking new ground. Also I think the gay adds another layer by making them feel accepted because it shows a “straight” guy giving in and having the same desires as a gay, albeit buried deeply. Therefore the gay gets excitement from bring the first as well as the feeling of validation and acceptance that even “straight”, “normal” people have the similar urges and desires and they themselves (the gay) are not all that different then the “normals” who they have no doubt felt alienated. I also think the gay on straight genre provides a sort of hopeful fantasy for the gay. They can hope that the (likely straight) guy they are crushing on would be open to their advances under the right conditions, simply because slim hope, is much more comforting than NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

    (Or maybe the gay on straight thing is just that all the gays are sex crazed lunatics who like nothing more than sodomizing straight men because that’s the only way gays can reproduce, I don’t know. The last paragraph was simply a hypothesis.)

    (PS Before I get the rainbow panthers at my house, I don’t really care where people stick their dicks or/and/or fingers. The last paragraph before this in brackets was purely satire about nutty fundy conceptions about homosexuality.)

  30. I disagree. I think simply a lot more men are straight, so a high proportion of the attractive guys will also be straight. The straight guy I’m most attracted to isn’t extremely masculine- they aren’t feminine, but they wear skinny jeans and stuff (but here in the UK that isn’t that rare).

  31. I don’t think it’s any of the aforementioned explanations. It seems that the majority of gay men are attracted to the traits that most heterosexual men embody. I believe that it’s actually rooted in the biology rather than society or other explanations which are beyond ludicrous. It appears that during the early stages of development, the fetus is gender neutral and exposed to different levels of testosterone at various points before birth. The testosterone influences both gender and sexual orientation, but they are both separate.

    Heterosexual men are usually exposed to higher levels of testosterone that modify the brain structures in such a way that they are aroused by the traits females possess. Vice versa occurs for females. Therefore, it is likely that homosexual men were exposed to lower levels of testosterone during the early phases of brain development before gender was assigned. The consequence is that they respond in a similar fashion to their own gender as women would. Essentially the brain structures responsible for sexual arousal in gay men is very similar in size, structure, and functioning to heterosexual females. The opposite can be said about pure lesbians and heterosexual men.

    So it makes sense that many gay men like straight men. Certain structures of their brains are similar to women. And while female sexuality is fluid, it’s likely that they aren’t drawn to femininity in men either. Yes, it does seem unfair because women can get laid much easier than gay men. Once again due to the testosterone hypothesis on the development of sexual orientation in men, the “masculine” men and “jocks” are most often heterosexuals because of how much androgens they were exposed to during development. It kind of irks me when superficial gay men say things like “straight-acting” only because they are setting themselves up for disappointment because such gay/bi men are few and far between. Even bisexual men are closer to one end of the spectrum than the other.

    As for now, it’s safe to assume that the traits that straight men possess are reserved for women. But then again, nobody ever said life was fair.

    • Pete, I think you are on the right track, but there are some details I would like to question.

      I basically agree with your description of how sexual orientation develops. But your conclusion relies on the assumption that masculinity and heterosexuality are linked, and there are few masculine gay men.

      While I will grant you that there are, proportionally speaking, fewer masculine gay men than straight men, I can assure you that there are tons of masculine gay men. I don’t know whether you yourself are gay or straight, but perhaps you have not met many. That wouldn’t be surprising, because they tend to fly under the radar. Often they come from more conservative backgrounds, sometimes religious. They are far likelier to be closeted or at least “discreet.” Quite a few of them are married to women and have families (sometimes they come out later in life). Or you meet them in the course of your daily life, but assume they are straight because they don’t fit your idea of what a gay man is like.

      I know and work with a lot of men, straight and gay. At least half of the gay men and more than half of the straight men are indistinguishable from each other on casual acquaintance. About half of the gay men are more “femme,” and maybe 5% of the straight guys are femme, the rest being on the hyper-masculine side (there are hyper-masculine gay guys, too). I know a totally straight guy who just had his first child, who is flamboyantly feminine and sets off everyone’s gaydar from miles away.
      I know a bunch of gay guys who you would never guess were gay in a million years, but they are totally gay. Such gay guys are not “few and far between.” A lot of men are not at the extreme end of the scale in terms of masculinity, and that includes straight and gay men. I also think there is room within whatever hand biology deals you for cultural influences. People can butch it up or femme it up. A lot of straight men consciously or unconsciously enhance their masculine characteristics and repress their more “feminine” characteristics. Some gay men do that as well. Not as many people seem to try to act more femme, as that’s pretty well looked down on in our society.

      As society becomes more accepting of LGBT people, I’m seeing more conservative-types come out of the closet, more young gay people grow up without major emotional issues, and also more straight guys who aren’t afraid of their softer side. I know quite a number of teenage gay guys who are jocks just like their friends, whereas in an earlier generation they might have avoided that because they didn’t feel comfortable in a predominantly heterosexual field. These are the sorts of kids who years ago would have completely flown under the radar, but now are starting to have the courage and family support to come out.

      My own thought is that the structures of the brain that control what gender a person is attracted to develop separately from those that influence one’s own gender identity and presentation. Let’s say you need a burst of androgen on day 23 to “masculinize” your sexual orientation structures, and another dose on day 24 for your gender identity structures. It makes sense to me that for lots of fetuses, if you don’t get that androgen on day 23, it’s quite likely you won’t get it on day 24 either. But it’s also perfectly possible that you could get it on 23 and not the next day, or vice versa. So multiple outcomes would be possible. Butch straight gay, femme gay guy, femme straight guy, butch gay guy. It appears it’s not always 100% – intermediate outcomes are possible, like bisexuality or relative levels of masculine/feminine. Or if the process is really total, you could get an MtF trans person. Even with a totally feminine gender identity, you can have different sexual orientation outcomes. There are trans women who are attracted to men, and trans women who are attracted to women. Or trans women who are bisexual.

      So yes, most gay guys (not all, by the way) are attracted to masculine men. But there is no reason that has to mean straight men. I think the reasons for being attracted to straight men (as opposed to masculine gay men) are different. For some, it may be a kind of internal homophobia. For some guys, I think it’s just that when they were growing up and forming their sexuality, all the attractive guys they knew were straight. This is the experience of almost 100% of gay guys. Growing up, we did not know any other gay people. All our early attractions were to straight guys. So why wouldn’t some gay men retain that psychological imprinting as they get older? Especially if, in their life experiences, they haven’t come into contact with many masculine gay men, who are somewhat harder to find. Let’s face it, the more flamboyant a gay man is, the more notice he attracts.

  32. Very well said “nzchicago”. Have a look at my comment on June 8, 2012 too. I really enjoyed reading your writing and it’s consistent with all the research articles I’ve read so far on sexual orientation and sexual identity. cheers :-)

    • Thank you, Yaniv. I actually wrote a reply to your comment in 2012! You can read it if you go back to your original comment.

      Hopefully there will be more scientific research in coming years.

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